Kaleigh Smith

SPEAKERS: Kaleigh Smith, Caroline Gates-Lupton

GATES-LUPTON: Alright. I'm Caroline Gates-Lupton with the Covid Oral History Project at Wells College. Today's date is April 10th, 2022. I am in Weld House in Kaleigh's room with Kaleigh. This is an unrehearsed recorded interview. And thank you again for joining me today.

SMITH: No problem.

GATES-LUPTON: All right. So I'm going to start by asking you some background questions. Could you start by telling me a bit about yourself. Your full name, your date of birth, and where you were born?

SMITH: My name is Kaleigh Marie Smith. I was born July 17th, 2001, in Syracuse, New York.

GATES-LUPTON: I didn't know you were born in Syracuse. That's cool.

SMITH: Yeah, I was born in Syracuse, lived in Liverpool.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, cool! Actually, the next question is where did you live growing up?

SMITH: Oh, I lived in Liverpool, New York, about... fifteen to twenty minutes away from Syracuse.

GATES-LUPTON: Okay, cool. Yeah, I don't think I've been there, but I hear the name on the-- on the weather reports.

SMITH: Yeah, it's-- it's small, but on the larger side of smaller suburb areas.

GATES-LUPTON: Is it bigger or smaller than Aurora?

SMITH: Oh, way bigger.

GATES-LUPTON: I figured, yeah.

SMITH: I graduated with over six-hundred kids in my high school class.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my god.

SMITH: There was a couple thousand people in my high school.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my god that's bigger than Wells [laughs].

SMITH: Yeah. It is. Big change

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. What other similarities or differences were there between where you grew up and Aurora?

SMITH: There's a lot of differences. We have a lot of stores. Everything, you know, you can walk down the street and be at a gas station convenience store, or like, there's a realtor office on the street, a doctor's office in my neighborhood, lots of small businesses, as well as I'm right off of Route 31, which has Target and Walmart, and restaurants-- Great Northern mall is right there. So it's a very busy area, whereas here we are in the middle of nowhere.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: You have to drive forty-five minutes to an hour to get to any kind of name brand store. Which is a big change, but it was one that I was willing to make for the Wells community.

GATES-LUPTON: Cool. [Pauses, Smith takes a breath as Gates-Lupton starts to talk] --Sorry, were you gonna say something else?

SMITH: No. I'm just awkward.

GATES-LUPTON: Okay. That's okay.

SMITH: [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: That's perfectly acceptable. Who do you consider to be your family?

SMITH: Obviously, my mom and my three brothers. I've been raised-- I have two parents, but I've been raised by my mother, specifically, for over the last ten years. And so I really only consider my only parent to be my mother. And then I have three older brothers, as well as two grandparents who I love dearly. But I also-- I do consider a lot of my friends to be family as well. I have two really great best friends from back home that I consider my family as well as a small group of students here on campus that I consider my family as well.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, it's always nice to have people who you didn't grow up with like, Oh, you're my family now.

SMITH: Yeah, exactly. It's like, blood doesn't mean family.

GATES-LUPTON: Absolutely. Could you tell me a bit about your brothers?

SMITH: My brothers. Ooh, interesting topic. So I'm the youngest of four children. I am the only girl. And my oldest brother and I are fourteen years apart.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh wow.

SMITH: It's fourteen, ten, and six years apart. I lived with all three of them growing up. And I-- I wouldn't say I was extremely close with any of them growing up, 00:05:00just because of our large age difference. My oldest brother, his name is Matthew, He-- because he was already pretty much almost an adult by the time I was born, he was off doing his own thing. He was in high school getting ready to go to college. And then my brother, Anthony, he-- he and I are probably the closest out of all the three. Just because he and I have always had a different bond than the other three, but he still comes and goes out of my life. And then the youngest brother, Tyler, he has lived with us my whole life, basically. And he and I probably get along the least. We argue like no other. Throwing insults, fighting, gets on my nerves all the time. Yeah, they-- I mean, I'm close with them. But it's hard just because they are so old. And I am the only girl. So I was picked on a lot when I was younger. And, obviously, I'm sure they didn't want a little sister, they probably wanted a little brother. So there was a lot of butting heads between me and my brothers. And it still happens. But as I myself have become an adult, I think we see each other a little bit differently. But I'm still the baby. So a lot of-- a lot of tension comes from being the baby.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I can see that. I'm the oldest, so I can't relate, but I know, tension comes from-- [like with] my brother, he's the youngest. Yeah I relate.

SMITH: Yeah. I was like, You have siblings, you relate. On the other aspect.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, on the other aspect. So you already did touch on this but can you just say, again, who you lived with, when you were growing up.

SMITH: So when I was growing up, my parents were never married. But they had been-- I think the total of the relationship lasted seventeen years. So they were together for a while before I was born. But they never got married. They both raised me until just after my twelfth birthday. My parents separated actually, the day before I started middle school.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh wow.

SMITH: Yeah, my dad left the day before I started middle school, which was already a really rough time in my life. And then to have that added on to it. And he was in my life for the first one or two years on and off, and then it kind of became less and less until we just didn't speak any more. So since then, I have been raised exclusively by my mother. And my mom and I were not very close before my parents separated, she worked two jobs most of the time on and off. And my dad had a job that allowed him to be home before I was done with school. Whereas my mom didn't get home till six, six-thirty. So I spent a longer amount of time with him than her. But once they separated, we became very close due to our shared trauma. So it really allowed us to bond and become closer. And now my mother is my best friend and I say that unironically.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, no I think that's really awesome. That you guys are so close.

SMITH: She's my biggest fan. My biggest supporter. She comes to-- you'll see her at every Wells show.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's really awesome. What were you like as a child?

SMITH: Oh, that's a great question. I was actually extremely shy as a child, 00:10:00which I still am. But I think definitely since coming to college, I've tried to break that mold a little bit more, and put myself out there. When I was a child, I did not speak to anybody even-- it took me the longest time to make friends as a child because I was just, really shy, and I didn't know it until much later life, but I was a very anxious child as well. So, but you know, when you're five , six, seven, you don't recognize anxiety like you do when you're a teenager or an adult. So I, I, yeah, I don't think I was too much of a handful. But I was a little spoiled because I-- My grandparents are my only living set that I have anymore. And I was the first grandchild. They're my paternal grandparents. I was the first grandchild on that side of the family. So I was also the only girl because the next two kids were both boys. So I have been spoiled very much my life. Mostly by my grandmother. My grandfather likes to fight it a little. bit, but my grandmother can always get him to say yes, to me. So I you know, I was a little spolied and my mother likes to say I was bratty, but I think all little kids are bratty, in my opinion. But yeah, I think I-- I played some sports. I was-- I played soccer for a while and then I've danced since I was two, obviously. Obviously chose dance over soccer. I was a girl scout for a while as well. So I was very active in things, which I think my mom was trying to do to get me to combat that shyness. And obviously, I was a very clumsy child. On top of that, always breaking things, always hurting myself. Falling off my bike, in one more pit, but probably more than normal. Yeah. So overall, shy? Blonde, I was blonde. Not a lot of people believe that.

GATES-LUPTON: I believe that, I used to be blonde.

SMITH: Thank you, I appreciate that. Shy, anxious. Trying to be a friendly kid. My shyness got in the way.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah no, I completely get that. Do you think playing soccer and dancing helped with the shyness?

SMITH: I definitely think dancing did. I-- when I played soccer, I was actually the smallest one on the team. So I was exiled from the other players, because they didn't think that I could play. But I actually shot the winning goal in one of our only winning games, and then I quit. I literally shot the goal. And I said, I quit!

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Congratulations!

SMITH: --and I walked off the field. And that was the only goal I ever scored, and then I was done.

GATES-LUPTON: Good goal to score though.

SMITH: Yeah, I know. So they, you know, just because of my size-- and I was a very small, short, and skinny child I-- so I was the size of your pinkie until I was about thirteen. So my-- they-- that impacted me, that just-- that kinda kept me in my shell playing soccer. I didn't really enjoy it. But I was being pushed to try other things other than dance and I did not want to do any of them. Dance on the other hand, I definitely think that it did push me out of my shell. Right off the bat, my very first recital, came off stage from our tap dance and I ran back onstage, because I loved the applause so much.

GATES-LUPTON: Aww, I love that.

SMITH: And I did my own little thirty-second solo. While the entire audience looked at me. And it is on video. I have evidence.

GATES-LUPTON: That's amazing.

SMITH: Yes. So, I like to think that, you know, I've been felt for the stage since the very beginning. And while I've always been nervous and shy about performing, it's definitely broken that down a lot more over the years. And I'm able to get onstage in front of, you know, whether it's twenty people or two-hundred people, and, you know, put on a dance performance. And, obviously, you're always gonna have performance anxiety. But, it's a lot different than stage fright, which I don't think I've ever really had much of an issue with. So I would say that dance specifically broke that shyness, mold that I had as a child. It forced me to get out of my comfort zone. Especially when I started doing theater as well, forcing me to try things that I wasn't necessarily comfortable with.

BOTH: [Laugh]

GATES-LUPTON: Did you dance continuously since you were two?

SMITH: So I danced continuously until I was-- I got injured when I was thirteen. And I couldn't dance for a year, I hurt my knee. And it was recommended that I take a year off to heal. Worst year of my life, all I wanted to do was dance. That impacted me in many physical and mental health ways. Things that I'm still combating to this day because of that. And once you know, I got the clearance to go back, I-- I went back and I was like, full force for-- I went back at the beginning of high school, and I danced for about two more years. And then we had a financial-- financial setback. And it just wasn't feasible for me to dance my sophomore year of high school. And that was devastating in its own right. Because it wasn't that I couldn't dance. I couldn't afford to dance. And yeah, that, you know, cause you don't have that physical block. But it's still, you know, hard to come to terms with, and I was really upset with my mom for a long time about it, which is ridiculous because I-- she wanted me to be able to dance, but we just couldn't do it. And I understand that, now looking back on it. But in the moment, you know, teen angst, you're just really angry about it. But I was able to dance my junior and senior year of high school, which is really what I wanted, I wanted to dance through high school. And then right off the bat, I started taking classes, my first semester here at Wells. Just because I knew I didn't want to stop while I wasn't-- you know, no longer dancing at a studio or focusing particularly on dance just because we don't really have much of a dance program here. I knew I didn't want to stop and it was something that I hope to continue to do for many years. So I still-- I still say I'm-- I'm pretty continuous in my dance training, but it was just those two years in there that I wasn't able to.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. This is going back a bit into your childhood but can you share a special memory from when you were young?

SMITH: Special memory...

GATES-LUPTON: Besides the tap solo.

SMITH: Besides the tap solo. I think one that comes to mind, actually, right off 00:20:00the bat. There's a little friend sitting behind you, the little brown dog back there. He was given to me by my Nana, my mom's mom. And she had a pretty bad accident that eventually led to her-- her passing in my early childhood. But I had a big surgery coming up, and she gave him to me when I came over to her house one day, and it's one of the last good memories I have of her before her accident. And I have recently found him again. He was buried away in a box by accident. And so every time I look at him over there at the end of the bed, it just reminds me of that-- that time. I have pictures of her on my wall right there. In the red hat. That's my Nana, my Nana Shirley. Yeah. So that's-- those memories that I've recently been thinking a lot about. Gives me good-- good vibes. Good-- good memories of my childhood. [Inaudible rattling and barking] There's a dog [in the room] above me. It's in a cage.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. I can hear him on the second floor too.

SMITH: He'll calm down.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs]

SMITH: Just give him a minute.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Okay. Now I'm going to ask you some questions about college.

SMITH: Okay.

GATES-LUPTON: So for when did you first start thinking about going to college?

SMITH: Oh, when I was nine years old. Exactly. Obviously, my impression of what I thought I wanted was very different when I was nine years old. I thought that I wanted a big school. Very different than what I got. But I-- I wanted to impress everybody by it-- knowing where I was gonna go to college and knowing what I was going to do by the time I was twelve, because I just thought it was funny that I knew what I wanted to do with my life. I did not. What I wanted to do when I was nine is not what I want to do. Well, I'm studying to do now. So yeah, it was a little pretentious, but nine-- nine years old.

GATES-LUPTON: What did you say you wanted to do when you were nine?

SMITH: Oh, when I was nine, I wanted to be a vet.

GATES-LUPTON: Aww!

SMITH: But then I came to the realization that I would have to work with rodents and snakes. And I don't like snakes, and I don't like rodents. And I also-- I love animals too much, I would not want to have to put them down. So that was ultimately what changed my path. Because I had been saying for the longest time that I was gonna be a vet. I had all these books on being a vet and veterinary things for children. And then-- haha, very shortly after that, I was-- I came to that realization, I read it in a book. And I said, No, this is not for me.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. I mean, it's good to figure it out before you go to vet school.

SMITH: [Overlapping] Exactly! Exactly.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: I'm grateful I made that decision when I was eleven, and rather than you know, twenty-one in college, goin' to vet school, ya know.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. What expectations did you have for what college would be like?

SMITH: Oh, I definitely thought that it would be wild parties every day. Not that I would go to parties, but I thought that people would be everywhere all the time. Very loud and chaotic. Before I came here, every time I thought of college, I thought of frat houses. Because I've seen Animal House and things like that. And I thought that-- I thought of college and I was like, People party in college. That's-- big lecture halls with three-hundred students. Everything that Wells is not, basically is what I thought college was gonna be.

GATES-LUPTON: So then how was it when you came here and it was completely different?

SMITH: I mean, I knew what I was getting myself into. But it wasn't necessarily what I thought I wanted. I initially only came on my tour to get my mom to stop talking about Wells--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping laugh]

SMITH: --because she worked with a woman whose son was in the very first coed class here. And so she knew that I was going to college soon and kept telling my mom to have me look at Wells. And I eventually got so sick of hearing her tell me I should look into it, I said, if I schedule a visit, Will you never talked about this places ever again. And she said, Yes, that's a deal. At the time, I had interviews and visits scheduled for big SUNY schools, I was looking into schools in New York City I had things looked at for Nazareth, and just big, big schools, compared to Wells. And I came here and the entire drive up, I complained. The minute we left our house until we got on campus, I said, This is the most scariest place I've ever seen in my life. Why is there nothing around? This is awful. Get me out of here. Let's go home. And then we pulled into campus and parked in front of Pettibone [Wells's admissions office] and literally the second I got out of the car, I shut up. And my mom said, That's the foot in the mouth, isn't it?

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping laugh]

SMITH: And I said, I don't want to talk about.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: And I went on my tour, and I had the best time. And I met a lot of really good people, on my tour. It was a beautiful summer day. You know, getting to, to see Wells when it's not, you know, freezing cold, the leaves are on the ground, you know. I-- I knew right then and there, I went to the bookstore and I bought my first T shirt. And I wore it almost every day for the rest of the summer. And I just knew, right then that this was the only place for me. And I actually went home, and that night I cancelled all of my other college visits.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, wow.

SMITH: I had about two or three. I think I came here on a Monday. And I had about two or three scheduled for the rest of the week. And I cancelled all of them. Because I just knew. I-- I have a gut feeling. And then I also later remember, this is kind of a funny sign. My Nana's maiden name is Wells.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my gosh.

SMITH: And it's-- the fact that I had never heard of this place before, and then almost seemingly, it dropped in my lap. And I believe in signs, and just the fact that I felt so comfortable here, considering many different factors and it's-- this, this is the only place for me. So, yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: That's really interesting.

SMITH: I know.

GATES-LUPTON: I've never heard a, you know, a "why I picked a college story" quite like that before.

SMITH: I know, I know, it's a little-- a little bit of a unique story.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: But I think one that-- that needs to be told more often. I really believe in trusting your gut and doing you know, what you need to do for you and not, you know, I want to go to this college because my parents went here, but you don't necessarily think you belong there, kind of deal.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, definitely. So when you first heard about Wells, was that through your mom?

SMITH: Yes. I had never, never heard of Wells. But then the minute she started telling me about it, I started seeing commercials for Wells on TV--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Oh dang!

SMITH: --and that-- that-- she had started telling me about Wells in my junior 00:30:00year of high school. Cause I came the summer before my senior year. And that winter, when they showed the school closings on the bottom of the TV when you watch the news, I started seeing Wells College--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Oh dang.

SMITH: --and I'd never seen it before.

GATES-LUPTON: Dang.

SMITH: And so it was weird, all of a sudden, it had just been mentioned to me, and I was seeing it everywhere. I started seeing pamphlets for Wells in my coll-- er, in my high school guidance counselor office. Thing-- just suddenly becoming aware that this was a place, essentially. But yeah, I had never heard of it. I did not know that Aurora even existed. And, I mean, it's one of the best places I think I've ever been, now that I've been here.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: That's really interesting. Was there any particular experience that you were hoping to have here besides the-- the ways you thought college were before?

SMITH: I mean, in general, I really just thought that college was gonna be this, big grand thing, where you get here, and you immediately, you know, make friends. And it's like, you can reinvent yourself and be new person. Cause I specifically picked a school where I wouldn't go to college with people from my high school. I've-- since I've been here, there's only been three other Liverpool high school students. And so I-- I really just wanted a new experience to reinvent myself. And I found that, you know, I got here and I kind of reverted right back into that-- that shy, don't talk to me kinda thing. I-- I made a few friends out of my initial orientation group, but in all it took me a couple of weeks to kind of settle in and make friends, which was hard because, I mean, by the first day of classes, I already saw freshmen forming groups of people. So that-- that was a little challenging. Because I just immediately thought I'd come here and have this whole new group of friends, right off the bat. And it-- it took me two or three weeks to really find a good group of people. And I mean, even since then, that group has changed. So it's just-- I-- I thought that I would have that-- that solid group right off the bat, and I didn't and it's-- it's changed since then, the people that I thought I was going to be friends with forever in freshman year, I'm not super close to a whole ton of them anymore. Just a couple of people. So I'd say that that's the biggest thing that I was expecting that I didn't get, cause I already know we-- we we don't have Greek life--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: --so I wasn't anticipating big parties or anything. One thing that I definitely was not anticipating was first day of classes, right off the bat, all the seniors drinking on the [Sommer] lawn.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] Yep.

SMITH: I have never been-- I've never been exposed to that in public before. I was like, What is going on? I was-- I remember being kinda weirded out on my first day of classes. I woke up, you know, went to an eight a.m. on Monday morning, and there's already a bunch of seniors in their graduation robes drinking out of their junior mugs on Sommer Lawn. And they did indeed stay there all day. And I just found that to be the most a bizarre thing I'd ever seen in my life. And 00:35:00then come to learn that that's, you know, part of Wells' traditions. And that-- that is definitely something that I had to get used to. You know, just being around people who party. Sometimes I think this makes me sound pretentious. But I-- I just wasn't in that kind of crowd in high school. I-- my idea of a fun Friday night is at home watching Netflix.

GATES-LUPTON: I mean, same.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: So I never went to high school parties, I don't drink or do anything like that. So it was a big change coming here, especially because I was told that this was a dry campus.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, you were?

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: Ohh.

SMITH: I was told by a couple of people in the admissions office that this is a dry campus.

GATES-LUPTON: That is not true. [Laughs]

SMITH: That is not true. I have very much come to learn that that is not true. So that was a very big shock to me to literally find out that the first thing they do on the first of day classes for seniors is a whole breakfast devoted to champagne.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: So that-- I would say that was probably the biggest shock to me, now that I think about it. It's like, being told one thing, and then coming here and having that not be the case. I had a big, big mental breakdown. Because I was just like, This is not what I thought it was gonna be. And I've come to terms with it, and I don't really care anymore that this isn't a dry campus. I wasn't specifically looking for one.

GATES-LUPTON: That's good.

SMITH: But I just felt comfortable that it was one. But I just think that that's really funny looking back on it now that that's what I anticipated when I got here. And then first day of classes: boom, drunk people on the lawn. So big change. Big shock.

GATES-LUPTON: That's so interesting they told you that, cause they didn't tell me that, they told me specifically that you can drink if you're over twenty-one.

SMITH: Specifically, I was told by my admissions counselor--

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, those are straight up lies. [Laughs] [Overlapping] Oh my god.

SMITH: --that it was a-- a dry campus. And I think my-- my tour guide also told me that it was a dry canvas. Yeah, they lied to me. [Laughs] They straight up lied to me. Which, you know what, it's whatever. I don't think any campus that says they're a dry campus is necessarily a dry campus.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: You're gonna drink in college. People are always gonna drink in college. So it is what it is. I'm not-- I'm not bothered by it anymore. I've come-- I've come to terms with it. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: Before you got to Wells, what did you plan on studying?

SMITH: I knew I wanted to be a theater major since-- I knew-- going back, I knew that I wanted to perform since I was young. Even when I went through my phase of I'm going to be a vet tech, thing. I was like, I wanted to be a dancer. For the longest time I wanted to be a Rockette. Too short to be a Rockette, so that dream will unfortunately never happen.

GATES-LUPTON: Wait, I am too. I just realized. [Laughs]

SMITH: The height requirement is 5'6", and I am 5'2".

GATES-LUPTON: Same. [Laughs]

SMITH: [Laughingly] I am way too far away to even fake it.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Because though, that was my dream for the longest time, I wanted to dance professionally. And then my cousin, who I am very close with, she has done theater her whole life. And I've seen every show she's done except for one, I was too young to go see it. And I remember specifically I was in sixth grade. And she was in Annie and I-- she was in sixth grade and in Annie and I was 00:40:00younger, I misspoke. I was probably-- I was-- I was young, I was young. And I went and saw it. And I, immediately, I was like, I want to do that.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Awesome.

SMITH: I pointed to the stage and said, I want to do that. And so I kinda followed in her footsteps in the fact that a lot of the people in my family, on that side specifically, if they go to college, it's for sports, or business. And the two of us have now gone to college for theater. She went to SUNY Oswego and I, ultimately, wanted to go SUNY Oswego to follow in her footsteps. So I've known for a long time that I was gonna be a performer in one way or another. It just kind of went from working as a dancer to becoming doing theater performances. And this is the one thing I think I've stuck with the longest in my life. I change up my interests very frequently. And so my mom always thought-- I used to tell her, I wanted to study theater and dance. And she was like, Okay, you'll change your mind in a year. And every year, I consistently just kept saying, I want to study theater and dance. And it's the one thing I think I've been able to stick to in my life. Which is good, because this line of work is not for the faint of heart. You really have to be devoted to it. And want to do it. Because it's hard.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh yeah.

SMITH: It's hard. So yeah, I've known pretty-- looking back, pretty much my whole life that this was eventually gonna to be something that I would do.

GATES-LUPTON: That's really cool. Yeah--

SMITH: [Overlapping] Thank you. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: --I think it definitely helps you that you've been doing it for so long.

SMITH: Yeah. Because I know a lot of people that didn't get into it, you know, that go on to be professional dancers that didn't start until their later years. And they're like, Oh, I missed out on that early training. So yeah, I definitely also think that my dance training has helped in my theater training as well, because I had a little bit of a performance background before I got started in theater. They go hand in hand in my head. They-- they have a lot to do with each other, especially my specific line of wanting to work in musical theater specifically. Kinda have to be able to dance to do musical theater. So I think I-- I think I've picked a good line of work.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, it really seems like you did.

SMITH: I tried.

GATES-LUPTON: What is your current major and year?

SMITH: Current major? I am a theater major. Attempting to about to be a dance minor as well. And I am on track to graduate in 2023. I'm a junior.

GATES-LUPTON: That's right, you graduate one year after me.

SMITH: Yes, I do. Yes I do. Hopefully.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: I should. If all goes according to plan.

GATES-LUPTON: I still have trouble getting over the fact that you're not a freshman anymore, because I remember you as a freshman.

SMITH: I know. I know. I know. It's weird.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. It went so fast.

SMITH: It's weird when I think about it, it went by really fast. I was always told high school is gonna go by really fast, and college will be the longest four years of your life. It was the complete opposite. I could not wait to get outta high school and it felt like I was there for a million years. And then I was like, College is gonna last forever and it's gonna be so great. And no, I definitely wish I could stay longer. But at the same time, I don't. I'm ready to leave.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. Yeah, I-- I get that.

BOTH: [Laugh]

GATES-LUPTON: What do you plan on doing after college?

SMITH: After college? I-- I mean, the overall goal is to end up on Broadway or in a touring company.

BACKGROUND: [Inaudible sounds from the dog above Smith's room]

SMITH: Dog. And of performing professionally, whether it's in New York or Chicago or LA, Boston, those little big theater cities, or I'm touring around the world or the country. But I think immediately after college-- I think for a little while, at least, I wanna-- lately I've been thinking that I want to teach dance and/or theater. Not in a-- academic setting, but in a community theater setting, or a day in school setting.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. That's what I want to do too with dance.

SMITH: Yeah. I'm not qualified to be a real teacher.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] No, me neither.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: Just give me my certification to be a dance teacher. I'm good.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, yeah.

SMITH: So I-- I've been also thinking a little bit maybe about going to grad school, to further my education, whether it's in specifically theater or dance or a combination of the two. That's been something that's been weighing on my mind a lot more recently that I've been trying to think about. Yeah. I'm not quite sure yet. But I've got-- I've got a couple different branches, roads, I could take. Just tryna figure out which one.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. It's good to have options, but it can also be overwhelming if you don't know what to pick.

SMITH: I needed somebody to pick for me.

GATES-LUPTON: That is such a mood.

SMITH: Yes, I always tell Patti [Patti Goebel, assistant professor of theatre at Wells], pick one for me, and I'll do it. I really need her right now.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, just call her up.

SMITH: Yeah. Call her, say, Tell me what to do now. I should actually do that.

GATES-LUPTON: She would probably have advice for you.

SMITH: She most likely will, so I will probably do that.

GATES-LUPTON: Okay, now we're gonna switch focus a bit and talk about the pandemic.

SMITH: Yeah. [Inaudible dialog]

GATES-LUPTON: What?

SMITH: I said Covid. Covid.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah Covid. [Laughs] So when did you hear about Covid-19 for the first time?

SMITH: For the first time. I heard about it, I think about February of 2020. And I just remember thinking, wow, I'm really glad I had my surgery when I did. Cause I had what was considered to be an elective surgery, because I had it-- I chose to do it a little bit earlier than I could've, I could've waited. I had the surgery in December, but they originally wanted to wait until the end of January, early February. And I'm glad that I pushed for the earlier date because they wouldn't've been able to do it. I just-- I remember hearing about it, sitting at home, towards the end of January, early February, and they started speaking about it being over in China. And they were still, at the time, saying This is nothing to worry about in the US, it's not going to happen, they've got control over it. And I remember, when I found out about the first case in the US, I was sitting in Phipps [Auditorium], on the little steps right next to the backstage door. And I was reading through the news headlines for the day. And my mom sent me a text the minute I came across the headline. And she said, It's here now, and I still remember kind of being in denial and thinking, oh, It's-- it's fine, it'll be like when we had the Ebola thing happen quite a while back where only three or four or five people got it and it was contained. And then it was never heard of again. That's what I thought it was gonna be. Wow, that was not the case.

GATES-LUPTON: Unfortunately.

SMITH: Unfortunately, that was not the case. Yeah. Quite-- it was-- I just remember not being worried about it for the longest time. And then, Wells sent us home. And that's really when I started to worry. That was not something that I was expecting to happen. Cause we went home for spring break, and everything was fine. And then they extended spring break an extra week. And I was like, Oh, great. We get an extra week off. Fun. And then they said, Don't come back to campus. And I cried. I remember crying. It was really-- but now that I look back on it, it was more of for a selfish reason, because I just wanted to be here. But I'm glad that that was not the case, considering what was happening in the world. And I think that ultimately, that was the right decision.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. It sucked, a lot.

SMITH: [Overlapping] It sucked. A lot.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SMITH: Especially being my freshman year, it sucked lot.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. Yeah.

SMITH: Yeah. It was bad.

GATES-LUPTON: So when-- when Covid-- when you were first hearing about it becoming a thing, you said you were at home?

SMITH: Yes. Cause it-- I started hearing about it when we were still on winter break, like J-Term [January Term] break. That was when I started hearing them briefly talking about it, on the nightly news. But wasn't a big thing here, so it wasn't widely covered, until about mid February, and then I started seeing more consistent news reports on it. And that's when it got scary, because I was like, Oh, they're talking about it now. This-- we didn't need to worry because they weren't talking about it, and now they're talking about it.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. So when you were-- when you were at home, and you were first starting to hear about it, what were other people around you saying about it, if anything?

SMITH: Oh, I can tell you. My mom and my brothers, specifically, I remember when they started talking about it. They said, Oh, it's the flu. It's the flu, it's a variation of the flu, it'll go away, it'll be fine. And even when people, you know, in China started dying, they were still saying, Oh, it's-- it's just a bad flu. It's-- one of my brothers was like, It's not even a flu, it's a cold. And I very, you know, at the beginning, I was like, Oh, they're right, you know, It's-- it's a form of the flu or cold. Especially when they started talking about the scientific things behind it, the-- the strain, the SARS-CoV-2, and they were like, It's connected to the-- the common cold, they were like, It has similar components to it. And I was like, Oh, so it's-- it's a cold, a-- it's just a genetically modified cold. And then, you know, the CDC and everything started coming back and saying, It's not what we thought it was, it's multiplying, it's getting bad. And I-- I started to be like, Oh, this is not gonna go away, not as quickly as everybody else thinks. And it was scary, cause while my mom was starting to realize what was happening, my brothers were still very much like, Don't worry about it. It's-- it's fine, nothing is wrong. And we actually think that my mom had the early strain of Covid, but we're not completely sure because nobody else got it. But when it first came to the US in mid-February, before people started reporting that they had it, she was sick for most of February with a lot of the symptoms of early Covid. But at the time, you 00:55:00didn't know what they were. So she was like, Oh, it's a cold, and continued on with going to work every day and continuing her daily life. And so, you know, looking back on it, that probably wasn't the way to do it, but--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] You didn't know.

SMITH: We didn't know. So that-- by the time the antigen test came out, it had been too long to detect it in her system, so she-- she's pretty certain that she did have that initial strain, but obviously we can't be certain. It's hard to say. But I definitely do think that a lot of people had it when it first came and just thought it was cold. Because they looked completely the same, almost.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, that's really interesting, I didn't-- I don't remember if I knew that there was a milder strain at the beginning.

SMITH: Yeah, it just-- I don't think it had had the opportunity to multiply yet. It-- it hadn't been evolving as quickly as it is now because not a whole ton of people in America had it. So you know, it multiplies by passing through the-- I'm not a science person)--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, same.

SMITH: --passing through your genetic DNA, in each person. That's how it multiplies and evolves. So, thanks people.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Very much.

SMITH: I know.

GATES-LUPTON: How did you feel about the-- the conversations that your brothers and your mom were having?

SMITH: At the beginning I was kinda indifferent to it, just because I didn't have enough knowledge of it, so I was kinda indifferent to it, cause I was like, Oh, they're right, it's a cold. And then when they started, showing news footage from China and the epicenters over there, and they were showing the body bags stacked up because they didn't have enough room in morgues anymore. You started seeing that on TV every day of your life, and you're like, Oh my god, how can you not-- how can you think that this is just a cold? And so I was becoming pretty frustrated, because that's kind of when Covid denier, that saying started coming out and being like, Oh, people don't believe in it. And it's like, I'm living with people that don't believe in it. [Laughs] And it was like, we don't [unclear]-- we don't really talk about politics or social issues in my house just because we all kinda have different views, each individually. Personally, I'm a Democrat, and while my mom's a Democrat, she is-- she's been alive longer, so she has more opinions on things, because she's seen other presidents that I haven't been alive for, legislation changes, and so some things that, you know, I-- I mean, she was alive for the initial SARS outbreak. So-- and she was like, Oh, it'll-- it'll-- that's what she compared it to, she was like, Oh, it'll be like SARS, they'll contain it, and then it won't be a thing anymore. And that's what, you know, she kept saying she was like, It'll be over within a couple months, they'll-- they'll detect it and shut it down and it'll be fine, nobody'll ever talk about it again. And whereas, you know, my brothers were still like, It's a cold, don't worry about it, they were going out every night and seeing people. And here I am, you know, with that internal anxiousness 01:00:00building up about it, because I was like, Do I do I say that, you know, this is a bigger deal, and maybe we should be more concerned than we are right now. But, you know, I was a fresh new adult in the world, I was freshly eighteen when Covid happened. And I was like, I don't know enough about the world to know if this is a big issue. And so I was kinda anxious to say anything about it, because I didn't want people to be like, Oh, you're wrong, you don't know enough. So I just kinda stayed quiet about it. And, you know, looking back, I should have trusted my gut and said things, but that wouldn't've really changed the outcome of things in the grand scheme of it all, so, you know, I don't dwell on that too much. But it's-- it is one of those.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. You're only able to work with the knowledge you had at the time.

SMITH: [Overlapping] Exactly. I mean, I'd only been in college for a semester. So I didn't have very much real world knowledge outside of the high school realm and one semester of college.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, it's really not a lot to go off of.

SMITH: No, it's not. It's not enough to be a functioning human in the world with thoughts that are not pushed at you by teachers, or parents, or people in the world and your family. So I didn't really have enough of my own thoughts or confidence, I guess, in my own thoughts to be able to say anything about it. That's changed since then. But at the time, it-- that was not the case.

GATES-LUPTON: So you said that, you felt it was getting-- started to become really serious when Wells said you couldn't come back? How did you feel about them saying we couldn't come back?

SMITH: Oh, I was so upset about it, because I had actually come to campus that day, to grab some clothes and clean out my fridge. Because when they said they were extending break another week, and that they were-- they were maybe considering extending it even longer. I was like, Oh, I need to, you know, go grab clothes, like-- medicine. Get perishables, yeah, things that I didn't-- things I didn't bring home initially, because I thought I would be back in a week.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: So I left a lot of things. I came back. And I had been here grabbing my things. And I was actually in Costco. When I got that email. I burst into tears in the middle of Costco. Because I was thinking, you know, not only I was sad to not go back, because I had a lot of plans for the spring semester, because of the health issues I had. My fall semester, I wasn't able to really do anything on campus. So I was really, really looking forward to things on campus, upcoming events and classes I was really enjoying at the time. And so I was devastated. Especially because my closest friend in freshman year was a senior. And I just really felt like I didn't get enough time to spend with her. I had a semester and-- I don't know, what would the amount of weeks is before spring break, four weeks? five weeks?

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my God I think about a month?

SMITH: Yeah, it's a month and a half or something you're here before spring break? So I was devastated that I not only had really missed out on my first semester, but now I was also missing out on my second semester as well. So I was 01:05:00really upset about that I-- because of my anxiety, I was really upset about leaving all my stuff. Because I-- as you can see, in my, my room, I bring a lot of things with me because I-- I have to make a little home out of my room, I can't just have nothing. So I was very anxious that now all my stuff was here, and I wasn't here with it. Not that anything I had left behind was necessarily important, but it was like--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] It was still here and you weren't.

SMITH: Exactly, now my stuff is here, and I'm not there. And I, you know, it was what really got me was the fact that I had just been here. And I had, you know, left an hour beforehand. And now I was at a Costco and-- you know, could-- if I-- if they would have sent that email an hour earlier, I could have brought all my stuff home with me, and not have had to make that second trip back, you know, a month or two later to get all of my things. So, it was a lot of emotions. And I didn't really know how to feel because obviously, you know, I'm feeling sadness, just because I'm missing out and anxiety because of all my songs, which is crazy in the grand scheme of things. And I'm, you know, not only thinking about school, but also thinking about the state of the world. Because I know that we're not the only ones that this was affecting. And if it's this bad, then it's becoming a big issue. I have never, in my twenty years of life, seen this many colleges and universities and not only us but businesses and federal and state government offices shut down seemingly out of nowhere. You go to work one day and the next day, it's not like they tell you to pack up and go home. Because it's too dangerous to be around each other. And so that was really frightening. And I mean, here I am standing in the middle of a very large warehouse store with a couple hundred other people. You know, this was before masks really became a thing. And so we're all very vulnerable. And I immediately started-- well, not immediately, I had very kind of selfish thoughts about myself for the first day or so. But then I started thinking about my grandparents. Because my grandfather specifically is high risk for Covid. Because he has health issues. And I mean, at the time, I myself wasn't, I didn't know I was immunocompromised. So I wasn't worried about myself. I was worried about him. And I was worried about my mom because my mom is also high risk. And so very soon after I started thinking, you know, what can I do to prevent this?-- yeah, it was-- it was rough. It became really scary and really intense. Very soon after.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Fun times.

SMITH: Yeah. Fun times. It's a lot. Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: What did you think of classes going online?

SMITH: I was a little nervous about it. Because they were like, We're gonna be on Zoom. And literally the first thought in my head was what is Zoom? I've never heard of that before. Come to find out, it's been a thing for a long, long time.

GATES-LUPTON: I'd never heard of it either.

SMITH: Apparently businesses have been using it for years I had no idea was a 01:10:00thing. I was like, I don't know what this is. I've never had to do classes online before. It was like, how does one do this? And I was like, how-- how do we do homework? Because, again, I don't have a printer at home, how do I print, you know, worksheets, because up until Covid, all of our assignments were on paper pretty much. You know, you go to class and your teacher would hand out your homework assignment for the night. So that was a big change, I-- learning how to have to do assignments besides essays on the computer, I had never done anything like that. I've never taken a test online before. I-- I was very anxious about it. Just because I did not know how it was going to work. I, in my head, I'm thinking it's hard enough to have twenty, you know, ten to twenty students in a room, you know, in person and get them to stop talking. How are you going to keep them in line on a computer from their own home? I was like, I don't see this being a productive thing in my head. I'm thinking, They're gonna just drop us all. We're just gonna stop college. In my head. That's what I'm thinking. I'm like-- because there's no way you can learn online. And I had never heard of people doing online school before. I mean, I know that's a big thing with homeschool now. But when I was growing up, if you're homeschooled, a person came to your house to teach your school. It wasn't online. You know, Zoom wasn't a thing. Microsoft Teams wasn't a thing. I didn't even know Google Classroom was a thing until I came here. So I was just very anxious about, you know, my grades are going to suffer. That was a big thing for me. Because I am a hands on learner, I really struggle to learn when I'm not in class. So if I'm not sitting right in front of the professor, and taking notes and actively listening, I can't focus. I'm a fidgeter. And I get distracted really easily. So it's like, you'll see if you're in class, for me, I always sit at the front, because that's how I stay focused. So I'm thinking, how am I going to stay focused inside my own bedroom? With all of my things. And my TV right there, my phone right beside me. And, you know, I can run to the kitchen and get something to eat while my professor was talking. That's not anything that, you know, you can't do that when you're sitting in class. Because, you get on your phone, your teachers gonna be like, What are you doing? Because they can see you. Whereas it's a lot easier to get away with it when you're behind a computer screen. Because, reprimanding students over a computer. What are you gonna do? Can't suspend them. They're in their own house. Can't send them to an office. They're in their own house. So it was things like that that worried me. Just not being able to stay focused also not having-- my house was very chaotic. We have grandchildren that live in our house as well, part time, and at the time, the youngest one was only a year old when Covid was happening. So screaming baby crying, you know, another one running up and down the stairs. I have pets, so barking, having to take out the dog, the cat wants food, it was just so many distractions that I 01:15:00just was having so much trouble staying focused. And I did see my grades slip a little bit. And that was very frustrating to me because I take pride in my schoolwork and being a good student and I knew that it wasn't the fact that, you know, I wasn't a good student, or I was slacking off on purpose, it was the fact that, you know, I-- I can't work from home in that aspect, I-- that's why I choose to live on campus, because it's like, this is a different environment than my home. And it forces me to do things on my own. And, you know, I-- my-- my mom got back in the habit of having to wake me up to go to class, like she did when I was in high school. Whereas, and here, you know, I'm responsible for my own self, if I don't get up to go to class, I don't get up to go to class. Whereas, you know, if I don't get up at home, my mom's barging in my bedroom, telling me to go to class. So I very much saw myself revert back into that. Not lazy attitude. But I wasn't motivated. Because I was really depressed about not being on campus, I was really upset about everything that we were missing out on. I was just really upset hearing about what was going on in the world. And that was my mental health really took a big decline, I actually started doing zoom therapy with my high school therapist again, because she was the only person who I could talk to at the time. Because Mindwell wasn't a thing. And I had been going to therapy and the-- the health center, and all those things were--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Gone?

SMITH: --taken away from me. And with the world shutting down, you couldn't go anywhere. So I was like, You were-- I really had to learn how to adapt to this new world of learning. And while I know, we're the generation of technology, or whatever they say about us, I don't know-- I don't necessarily think that's true. It's still a learning curve. Yes, I've grown up using computers but not in this sense. I'm not, you know, watching lectures on my computer every day at home. That's just not something we did before Covid. So, it was a big-- a big adjustment, but, you know, one that had its own pros and cons. Yeah. It was rough.

GATES-LUPTON: I don't even know either. Yeah, it sounds it.

SMITH: Yeah. Specifically for me, it was rough. I did not have a good time.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, no. Sounds like a lot--

SMITH: [Overlapping] Yeah, it was bad.

GATES-LUPTON: --all at once.

SMITH: Yeah, it was a lot all at once. And I know, everybody's experience with it was different. And it really depends on where you live and what your family situation is like. I know, a lot of people have an office in their house. I don't have that. I live with three other people and two children half of the week-- There's no room for privacy in my house. So you know, I would have people barging into my room while I'm in class. And so it was just, you know, not a productive environment for me to learn. And I, you know, I don't blame anybody for that because I know everybody had their own challenges with it and everybody was adjusting. And you just had to kind of adapt and go with the flow, but it was a rough start to it.

GATES-LUPTON: So where were you when lockdown started? And who did you spend that first lockdown with?

SMITH: So for the first big lockdown. I was home, because obviously we were on 01:20:00spring break, and I don't vacation. My vacation was spent at home on my couch. So I was at home in Liverpool with my mom and my brothers and the pets. And that's who I spent my lockdown with. I didn't see my grandparents for a lot of the first lockdown. Because I wanted to protect them. And that also really took a toll on me. Because they're a big part of my life. And I spend a lot of time at their house and out with them. And now I was reduced to FaceTime calls. And they-- if they had to come up and get groceries, because they like to come, or shoe shopping up by my house, and some of them are by their house. They would come and stand on my front porch and I would speak to them through our-- our glass door. Which is really hard because my grandmother also gives the best hugs. And I actually couldn't hug her for a year. I didn't hug her for a year. So that-- that was really rough. Especially since I'm so close to them. And I talked to my grandmother every day. And yeah, so I-- I struggled a lot during that first lockdown, also a lot of fighting with my family. Just because, you know, we were all suddenly stuck together. And my-- I don't know what it is about my presence, but when I'm at home, my brothers are very unhappy that I'm home. They just, I don't know, I don't know what it is. But it was just a lot of arguing and a lot of fighting, which my mother was not happy about. So it was, you know, a lot of tensions, emotions, anger, sadness. It was a rough couple months. That first big lockdown, because I didn't go anywhere. I wouldn't even go to the store. We would order our groceries from Target and they would come put it in the car and we'd go right home. So, I physically didn't go outside. For that entire first lockdown. Which, you know, to my memory lasted in-- through the summer.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I think so.

SMITH: And I didn't do anything. I didn't go anywhere. I didn't do anything. My birthday was fun at home. Because my birthday is in the summer. We usually go out and do something, but we cut it. And that was really rough. Couldn't see family. Yeah, it was-- it was hard. I love my family, I promise.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, no, I one-hundred percent get it.

SMITH: It was really rough. Having no choice but to be stuck with them when I would have rather been here for a majority of that time. So a lot of arguments about that.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, no, I was sharing a room with my brother, whom I love so much, but we had no privacy.

SMITH: Yeah. It's the worst. It's the worst. Yeah. So you get it.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, yeah, I get it. How did your life change during lockdown?

SMITH: I mean, I've always been a homebody. So the part about having to be at home wasn't a huge difference to me. I don't really go anywhere anyway. And I don't drive, so I wasn't tempted to get in a car and go somewhere. So I was pretty comfortable just staying at home. It was just the fact that we-- we, you know, I was stuck at home. But I wasn't too worried about having to be at home. The big effect was on my mental health. I already suffer with anxiety and 01:25:00depression, and that kinda made it ten times worse. Not being able to go see my friends, because I had had plans that I had been-- planned months before. Like for summer things that I was gonna do with my friends. And all of a sudden, those couldn't happen, they were gone. And so having to spend time with friends over FaceTime and you know, not being able to see people or go out to lunch with a friend. And I really found myself just wrapped in a blanket in my bedroom most of the time, because I just didn't want to do anything. I watched a lot of movies. I ran out of movies about first month of the summer. It was like, you know, just sitting on the couch doing nothing, because where are you gonna go? We're in a pandemic, everything's closed. Can't go to the beach. They're all closed. Can't go to the store. They're all closed. Can't fly anywhere. It's restricted. So it's like, you know, what else are you supposed to do than just sit at home? We're not the board games sit around having movie night type of family, no, we'd all rather do our own thing. Binged a lot of TV shows. Mostly just because I had nothing else to do. So I feel like my brain kinda melted a little bit during-- during that first lockdown. Just because I wasn't doing anything productive. I wasn't dancing, because I couldn't go anywhere to dance. And I don't have room in my house. I wasn't training for theater, because all the local theaters were closed. You know, all I really did was sit at home and watch Netflix. And it's like, Yeah, things were happening virtually, but that wasn't until kinda the later portion of Covid, this-- this second wave, or however you want to word it. So during that-- that initial first lockdown, first year, there was nothing to do. Nothing. Nobody knew what to do. How-- how do you handle something like this? Since I've been alive, this is the first big thing that's impacted life this much. I mean, I was a month old when 9/11 happened, but I wasn't coherent enough to see how that affected the world. So this is definitely history in the making. And it's-- it's weird to think about the fact that this will be in the history books someday.

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Oh yeah, I think about that all the time. It's so weird.

SMITH: [Overlapping] Yeah. And our kids one day are gonna come home from school and say, What was Covid-19? And we're gonna have to tell them the journey that we've had the last two, three years.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: And it's like, it's-- I often think, you know, I do a lot of thinking about what the past few years have looked like and also what the next few years are gonna look like. It's hard to tell. Things are changing ever frequently. It's rough.

GATES-LUPTON: Did you have a daily routine when you were at home?

SMITH: No. Absolutely not.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: If you consider my daily routine sleeping in till noon and then watching TV til midnight, and going to bed and doing it all over again--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] See? That counts.

SMITH: --I mean, that was pretty much what I did. When, you know, once we kind of got-- that was, you know, more of once school ended. When when we were actually in-- in session, during the remainder of that semester. We-- my routine-- here, I get up, I get dressed, I go to class. I don't really-- I don't eat in the morning. But I get up immediately, I get ready and I go to class. At home, I would snooze until 01:30:00about fifteen minutes before my class started. And I would sign on in my pajamas, laying in my bed still in the covers. Because why are you gonna get up out of bed and get dressed when, chances are, when that hour and a half class is done, you're gonna go back to sleep. If you don't have anything else after it, you're gonna go back to sleep. So it was-- my routine was just wake up with enough time to be coherent and get that brain fog out, and sign on the class and just sit there. It was very hard to do anything other than that. The will to get up and get dressed and actually get ready for the day was not something that I had. I-- I have a lot of friends who would do that, they needed to have that structure, but I think it had just affected my mental health so bad, that I just did not want to do that. It was a miracle that I got up and signed on to class. That-- you can't ask me to do more than that. You can't ask me to get up and get-- put jeans on. Just to sit in my room in front of a camera. No. So, you know, once-- once the semester was over, all I did, again, was just sleep all day and then do nothing. Because I-- what are you gonna do? You know, and I was so, you know, depressed and not in a good space. And, you know, what else can you do besides just get up in the morning? Or late afternoon, like me. So yeah, I mean, I guess if you wanna call that a routine, I guess it's a routine. Eat junk food all day. Cause why are you gonna look good? No one is gonna see you.

GATES-LUPTON: Did you have much interaction with your family?

SMITH: Yeah, my mom didn't really let me stay in my room. When I wasn't in class, I preferred to do my classes in my room just because I had the privacy of closing my door. Whereas if I did it in the living room, people are walking by and going to the kitchen and so if I wasn't in class, she wanted me like in the living room to talk with her and-- so even if we just sat in silence and watching TV she just didn't want me to be alone. And then my interactions with my brothers I was frustrated with them because they continued to go out and not really wear masks when they did go out, they were kinda you know, relaxed about it and they-- you know, we're so kinda like, Oh, it's not a thing and even now are still kind of even after things that have happened-- it-- and that's frustrating because my mom and I, you know are a lot more aware of what-- and care more about what's happening and how that's affecting people. And so to live with two others that have small children that don't really care about it is frustrating not only for yourself, but for others.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Were there any unexpected benefits that emerged for you during lockdown?

SMITH: Unexpected benefits. I thought I was gonna go in a completely different direction. Benefits. I mean, I guess I really did have a lot of time by myself to-- I did a lot of thinking especially I-- I started to have doubts about my 01:35:00career a lot during Covid. Because of how Covid affected the performing arts and the Broadway community. And so I was-- started thinking, you know, what if this happens again? Because I keep seeing in the news-- though-- keep saying we're a couple hundred years overdue for a massive-- another pandemic. So it's, you know, they're thinking another fifty years, this is gonna happen again. It's scary to think about. I hope it doesn't. But it's like I-- I had a lot of time to really do some deep, soul searching? As corny as that sounds. To be like, Is this really what you want to do? Look at how it's affecting your job opportunities. And I-- for a while, I was like, I don't think I could handle working like this. But then, with this second lock down wave and everything, there's been a lot of creativity that's come out of Covid. And especially in the theater community, we've really adapted to this new world of performing and doing theater. And online theater is now a big thing. And it's just showing that this industry I've chosen is ever changing and adapting. And it kind of restored my faith and like, Yeah, I can do this, even if it does happen again. It's like, you know, I firmly believe in that, that stupid saying, If you love what you do you never work a day in your life. And it's like, I love what I do. So, you know, I-- I'm not-- I was doubting a lot during-- during Covid. But this isolation really gave me a chance to think more about things and have time to really think about it, because, you know, you get to college, and they're like, Okay, what are you going to do? This is what you're going to do for the rest of your life. So you better make a good choice. And you can't change it. Once you get to-- once you get past sophomore year, you're declared, can't change it. So it's like, that's scary. And it's like, you're asking a bunch of eighteen-year-olds, to make, you know, a life decision and spend thousands and thousands of dollars on this-- this life choice that, you know, a lot of people will come to regret. So you better-- you better love what you're doing. And so I really had to sit and be like, Is this what I want to do for the rest of my life. And I still sometimes have those thoughts. And I really have to remind myself of the great things I've seen come out of this and you know, how much there is to do in this world. And I'm just really having time to sit and have complete faith in myself that I'm going to make the right choice and even if it's not that choice, if I graduate and a couple years down the road, I decide this isn't what I want to do anymore. That's okay. I really had to come to terms with because it's like this was a lot of money to be spending on something that you very well may change your mind and decide you don't want to do anymore. And so having to really be like you know, it's okay if you graduate and you decide this isn't what you're wanting to do. Cause I while I intend for this to be what I want to do, I've learned a lot of skills that I can apply to other aspects of my life. And for that, I feel like it was the right choice for me to make and I feel like Covid definitely, you know, having to sit at home and not go anywhere 01:40:00and doing a lot of internal searching and thinking, because what else you're gonna do, you're watching everything else on Netflix mind as well think, oh, it's like, you know, having coming to terms with, with things--

BACKGROUND: [Engine revving]

SMITH: Somebody's speeding. And just being confident in what you're doing and confident that even if you change your mind, that's okay. Nobody's gonna hate you.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah no, I really love that.

SMITH: I'm trying.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I love that

SMITH: Doing a lot of soul searching, Caroline.

GATES-LUPTON: So back to like, focusing on-- I mean, you were talking about being a college student, but more talking about how the pandemic impacted you specifically as a college student? How did it impact you as college student?

SMITH: A college student. I mean, it's really just, this was one-thousand percent not what I thought my college experience would look like, you know, just in general, it's not-- I-- things that I thought were gonna happen in college didn't happen, and then Covid happened. And it really threw a wrench in my plans. But I really feel like, in a strange way-- I don't want to say I'm thankful for Covid, because I'm not. But I'm-- I'm thankful that I took Covid as a chance to learn. And specifically learn how to adapt to an ever changing world. Because it's like, now that you're an adult, you know, a lot of things happen in the world that people don't tell you about when you're in college and a young person. And, you know, having that time to think and figure out who you're gonna be in the world... that was impacted by Covid. Because, you know, I'm not on campus experiencing things in person, but I feel like the skills I've gained from having to learn how to do things online, having to learn how to be in class and be attentive, while online, and, you know, not looking away because somebody is walking in the hallway, or thinking, Oh, I can make some popcorn right now, let me go do that, you know, things like that you can't get up and do during a normal class. You know, learning how to stay focused in an environment that's not necessarily for learning. And learning how to adapt to ever changing methods because we started out on Zoom, then we went to Teams, and each professor had their own way of like, navigating this pandemic, and how to do work throughout this pandemic. So it's-- that-- that specifically was a big learning curve for me and something that was-- it's stressful overall, but I'm grateful that, you know, I-- I could only do what I could for myself and I have my relatively good health. And, you know, I was fortunate to not deal with direct grief in terms of the pandemic. And-- not within my immediate circle. And so I was able to relatively stay within a clear mindset of being able to learn and grow and yeah, stay-- stay focused and attentive and adapting to things that seemingly changed every week. Because something you did in class one week, maybe 01:45:00you did it a different way the next week. So it was changing pretty frequently. And I think it takes a lot to be able to say, hey, I don't know what I'm doing, I need help, and figuring out how to help yourself. So it forced me to, to definitely learn how to figure things out on my own. Because a lot of people did not know what they were doing. And so you, you know, you could ask your professor, Hey, I don't know how to do this over, you know, online, and they'd be like, I don't know what to tell you. Figuring it out myself. So having to figure out ways to get things done in a timely manner, that-- definitely good skill that I'm gonna carry with me, but skills that I didn't necessarily anticipate having to learn.

GATES-LUPTON: So do you feel like you were able to meet the challenges that the pandemic threw at you in the college students setting?

SMITH: I mean, yes, I feel like it was pretty challenging, especially when we came back from that initial lockdown. And all of a sudden, you know, we're testing every two weeks and masks are policy, and, you know, Quarantine is a thing and isolation. All these things that we've never had to think about before, and they were very challenging. And as somebody who has experienced the Wells College quarantine isolation, Not great. Don't recommend.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah it doesn't sound great from what I've heard.

SMITH: People in, you know, twenty, thirty years will be like, What was quarantine like? Awful. Don't recommend, ten out of ten horrible. Just to put that on the record.

GATES-LUPTON: Yep, it's on the record now.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: It-- those challenges were things that I was not anticipating having-- being thrown at me. You know, just, in general, no events happened last year. We-- especially in the fall, nothing--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: Nothing happened, so it was a pretty boring sophomore year, if I do say so myself. And it's like, yes, things were happening, but it was harder to learn how to adapt to those things. You know, with masks and social distancing, and, you know, you-- you walk into a classroom and all the desks are six feet apart. And you-- it just felt like-- it really affected from what I could tell the campus community, and there was no connection between students. And I definitely feel like that's been reversed this year. events have happened, things are-- I don't want to say returning to normal because I-- I really don't think normal will ever be a thing again. So I like to say, this new normal. Because I just don't think things are gonna happen the way they did pre-pandemic. And so, you know, things are happening again, they're actively trying to make this-- make the best out of a really sucky situation, for everybody involved. And letting us, you know, having things to do and helping us as students without, you know, breaking Covid violations or you know, saying, Oh, you can't do that because it violates Covid. No, just adapt, we have dances now, but you gotta wear a mask? Oh well, you get to go to a dance. So it's like, I-- I think that the-- the 01:50:00school while, you know, maybe admin or something themselves threw a lot of disadvantages at us, I think the student body in itself has really come together to compromise, I feel like we've done a lot of compromising, whether it's giving up things or you know, finding a new way to do them. So I-- I definitely think that everybody just wants, you know, a sense of normal. And while-- while we don't really know what normal is anymore, I think we're getting there, and I think that being a college student in a pandemic itself is just really hard. Being a college student in itself is incredibly difficult. And now you're doing it in a global pandemic. And so I think that we have a lot of resources at our disposal to encourage us to stay on track and help us and, you know, a lot of people are, you know, more-- more devoted to helping students than others. But it's-- it's a work in progress, and I-- I think what they've done so far to help counterbalance those disadvantages, have worked wonders so far. Hopefully, they continue to help us out. --happened.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. I think you've already talked a bit about this, but can you think of any unexpected benefits in terms of being back at wells that have emerged because we're in a pandemic?

SMITH: Unexpected benefits. [Inaudible] I think just being able to be with people again, because we were just isolated for so long, and especially since the vaccines have come out. And from my knowledge, the majority of the campus is vaccinated. It's a small percentage is not. I feel like that has helped boost morale, and helped students feel safer in some aspects. And I know, because of the pandemic, I've bonded with some more students a little more closely, because, you know, you can't hang out, maybe you-- you go and you sit on the lawn in a big circle, and you-- you talk. And, you know, I have also picked up some new activities through this pandemic here at Wells. Never played Dungeons and Dragons before and now I do that, so I mean, I-- I think that that is, you know, it's kind of forced us to try new things and being back at Wells they're encouraging, you know, new new things and there's always new-- new clubs and new events and you know, changeover is not-- not great here. We don't love changeover. But I think that a lot of the new people that have come in have really dedicated their work to try and make student lives a lot better during this really unfortunate situation. And so it's like, you know, we're doing the best with what we got and what we can do. And it's been-- I commend the people that have taken it upon themselves to-- to make sure we have things to do, make sure that we're doing them safely, and actively working to make things better.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, it's not a job I would want.

SMITH: No, I don't want any of that job in any sense of the word. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: No.

BACKGROUND: [Sounds of phone recorder being moved around and attempts to turn it on. Inaudible dialog.]

SMITH: Technology, I'll tell ya.

GATES-LUPTON: We're at almost two hours. [Laughs]

SMITH: Well, you know what, I told you, I love to talk.

GATES-LUPTON: No, you're giving amazing answers.

SMITH: Thank you.

GATES-LUPTON: This is-- this is awesome.

SMITH: Oh, yeah, I have a lot to say.

GATES-LUPTON: If you need a break at any point, though--

SMITH: No, it's fine.

GATES-LUPTON: Okay, awesome. So I know you were in your freshman year when the pandemic started. And I know you had a really rough first semester.

SMITH: Yes I did. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: But could you compare what was just that first semester--

SMITH: [Interrupting] Pre-pandemic to now?

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: So.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs]

SMITH: Not only did I get to see everybody's smiling faces, there was-- compared to my first semester, and then sophomore year-first semester, way different. My freshman year, everybody was really high spirits, lots of things were happening, people were excited, lots of events and performances and way more clubs then there currently are, just so many things that I didn't necess-- I haven't really gotten to experience again, because they've either died off or people graduated and you know, things didn't continue. And then, you know, it was really-- the energy on campus was a lot more of that community feel of what I was promised. You know, everybody was really warming and welcoming. And from what I can remember, there was no drama, overall. You know, everybody has a little, here and there. But, you know, the-- the overall school drama was not what it is now. And I think that that has a lot to do with the pandemic. Because people are angry and emotional, and depressed, and just not-- we don't have that same community values that we did that I really saw my-- my freshman year, the first semester. People were used to go hang out down at the boathouse every day. And there were picnics on campus. And people sitting out under the sycamore, playing instruments and singing, and people going for walks just for the sake of going for a walk. And now, everybody kinda just sits in their room, gets into drama on the student Facebook page. Student Assembly, they are now a lot more tense than I remember them being, that first semester. I just feel like since the pandemic, people have a lot more to complain about, about wells. And while I do agree with some of it, I think that a lot of it is things that wouldn't be happening had we not been in a global pandemic. And it's like yeah, there-- I-- there are important issues that need to be brought up, but I feel like the emotions are a lot more heightened, because everybody is already feeling it. And it's like, yeah, we're stressed and we're, you know, upset and depressed. And, you know, the stakes are a lot higher right now. But I-- I-- I miss that community feel that we really had in the beginning. And it's like, yes, it's still there. But it's not what it was. It's the same group of people that are holding that 02:00:00community together, but it's not campus-wide. My freshman year, it was campus-wide. It was everybody, it was students, faculty, staff, admin, everybody was involved in this community circle. And now it's the same group of twenty students that go to every event, go to Student Assembly, and, you know, are making sure people are doing well. And it's like, yes, you can only do so much for your own mental health. And, you know, I get that, but I just really-- I miss that, that community aspect, that value that we really had at the beginning.

GATES-LUPTON: Besides missing it, how do you feel about how different it is?

SMITH: I'm-- I'm kind of upset about it, actually. Because one of my big selling points about Wells was, I was promised this big community, I was specifically promised on several visits, We're a family, is what I was told. Everybody cares for everybody. And I really did feel that my freshman year. You know, everybody wanted to help out. You know, freshmen were encouraged to-- to mingle with seniors and upperclassmen. You know, you went-- you made friends with everybody, and you went into games and the Sunday Funday trips.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, those were good.

SMITH: Yeah. And so things like that. And, you know, I'm upset that it doesn't feel that way anymore. Because I go to Student Assembly, and I'm just mad afterwards. Because, yes, they're important things that are being brought up. But it's like, I just feel like a lot of the things that get brought up are not being brought up to the correct forum. It just, it makes me mad that some people don't want to listen to that. And a certain group of students that-- it seemingly continues to be these students-- just want to be heard, and I get that, but they're not actively trying to be heard by the right people. And so the repetition of what they're trying to be heard about-- I know, I'm not the only one, I've had this conversation with many other students. Everybody is just kind of annoyed and fed up with it and all agree that it's like, you know, go to the right people and take the steps to actively ensure that these things are happening. You can't just go to some assembly and yell, you know, that's not doing anything. You know, you have a problem with your bathroom, you put it in School Dude [maintenance request]. You know, something's broken, tell faculty and you know, things like that. You can't just yell it out into the void or put it on the student Facebook page and assume that it's gonna get fixed. And so I really feel like, you know, we spend more time being angry at each other, and butting heads and yelling at each other than we do appreciating each other and building those bonds that, you know, was promised that we'd have forever. And, you know, I can say that about my own classmates, a lot of the freshman class that I came in with is either not here anymore, because they transferred because they didn't feel that, or, you know, we're all-- sorry. [Inaudible] We're all mad at each other. Because, you know, while we are given outlets to resolve these tensions, I feel like people don't take advantage of them. And then they complain that they don't have the opportunity to, you know, be heard, but they do and they just don't take advantage of it. So I just feel like the pandemic has specifically made students really angry, especially here, I feel like we 02:05:00have more conflict than any other school I've ever heard of. And it's like, all things that could be resolved by people just sitting down and listening to each other, and caring what they have to say, and, you know, not yelling over each other in student assembly. So, I think, you know, I'm just personally upset by more of the behavior of students and not wanting to be involved with each other. Because admin and faculty and staff have given us those opportunities. Students just aren't taking them.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Yeah, that's really frustrating.

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: So I'm sure that the traditions were also marketed to you, as they were to me.

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: How were the traditions impacted by the pandemic?

SMITH: Well, a big one, I didn't get to do May Day.

GATES-LUPTON: Aw, yeah. Yeah, yeah I heard about that.

SMITH: My freshman year, I didn't get to do May Day, and I was really looking forward to it. But luckily, that was something that was offered to me last year, because I didn't get to do it my freshman year. And so that was my big one that I was-- I was so-- I was waiting for May Day. And, you know, I didn't get to do it my freshman year, but we-- we adapted, and it was-- we were given that chance last year, out of the kindness of Gabby to open it to students, and that is happening again this year. So yeah, students-- that's-- that's really what I love about the traditions here is while they are traditions, they're always kind of evolving. And not changing what's at the core of the tradition, but changing, for example, Smash Week, Smash Week is typically Smash Day. But, you know, we evolved because it didn't happen the last couple years, because of Covid. And so, you know, the class officers took it upon themselves to make it a big thing involving not just the sophomores, but you know, all the students, and turning it from Sophomore Smash into Smash Week, for everybody. And getting clubs involved and all that. And, yeah, it's just-- yeah, there are a lot of traditions that I like that've been kept the same, you know, there's always an argument that comes up about whether GP should become a coed dorm. I personally don't agree with that, because that, I mean, at the base of our foundation, we were an all-women's college.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, we were an all-women's college.

SMITH: So you know, having something to still show and stand for that, and having GP be that all women's dorm, I think is-- is something that I-- I value about the traditions here walls, and, you know, you get Senior Week and Junior Blast, and there's something for every-- every class that is specifically tailored to them. And then there's also overall traditions, Convocation's a big tradition, and-- and you know, then you got Champagne Breakfast, and Late Night Breakfast is probably my favorite tradition. And, you know, just-- I enjoy that traditions are you know, kinda the one time where nobody complains, which is something that's really nice, cause I kind of find that that's rare here. And while some of them can be a little controversial, especially the GP thing, I-- I find that, you know, a lot of students are on the same page about a lot of 02:10:00things, and so the traditions continue to happen because students care that they happen. And I don't know of any college that does things like we do, all of my friends that go to other universities, whether it's in the state or out of state, don't have things like this. And it's something that really bonds all of us, I think, and unites the campus and unites us with our admin and our faculty and our staff. And I-- that-- that is probably one of my favorite things about Wells, is having those traditions. And I'm glad that while Covid has affected them, they're still happening.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh yeah same.

SMITH: And they stand strong, and you know, you-- we've still passed down pins, and we still have given roses to the seniors, and you know, the things that are important to students, they make them happen. And we fight for those things. And those things always typically end up to be the traditions. So, and, you know, while they have evolved with time, they're still at the core what they were, you know, when we opened in 1868. I-- that's something I really cherish about Wells.

GATES-LUPTON: Did you notice differences in perceptions of the pandemic between here at Wells and back at your home?

SMITH: I will say that, I-- from what I saw back at home, people took it pretty seriously. And I feel like here, mostly among the students, it wasn't taken as seriously, mostly because they didn't want to wear masks, and they wanted to hang out with their friends, and they didn't care if they got sick. And, you know, whereas at home, you've got parents and grandparents and little siblings, and people that can be really affected by Covid, while you yourself may not be. And so I think that the way students perceived Covid-- not-- not all students, a lot of students really were good about social distancing and wearing their masks, but, you know, you do always have those group of students that, whether it's a religious thing or a political difference, that they just don't believe in it and don't see it as the issue that it is. And that can be really frustrating, especially if you're friends with these people. And, you know, I've really-- I've always kinda learned to not talk about politics or social justice issues, things like that, because I've tended to get in a lot of arguments with people that I'm friends with. Because, you know, that's really the quickest, surefire way to find out what you believe in. Just sit down on the table and say, Do you believe in vaccines for children? You know?

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: Some people are gonna say, Oh, absolutely. And then you got the people that say, No. And then, you know, whether you have a respectful conversation about that, or a disrespectful one, that'll really shape the next couple of years of your life. So it-- I think that, while there were mostly adults back at home that were like, I'm not wearing a mask when I go to the store, a lot of people my age that, you know, well, younger than me that are still in high school, or a lot of the little kids in my district, were really good about social distancing and wearing your mask and, you know, not going out when you don't need to, whereas it was mostly the adults, you know, that were going out everywhere not wearing a mask coughing on everybody. And it-- it was kind of the 02:15:00opposite here. Whereas I saw all the adults in the village walking around, in fresh air with their masks on, but then you got students here on campus that, you know, can't take two steps outside of their-- their dorm building without taking their mask off. Especially right in the beginning of the pandemic. It's-- it's different now because things have changed, and we're more protected, but really right in that first beginning when, you know, we didn't know a lot and things were-- the stakes were a lot higher. It was really frustrating to see that.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Yeah, no it frustrated me, every single time I saw it I got really, really mad.

SMITH: No it's like, how can you walk into the dining hall and not have a mask on?

GATES-LUPTON: I know.

SMITH: Come on, you know.

GATES-LUPTON: I know.

SMITH: [Unclear]

GATES-LUPTON: The one time I accidentally walked through the dining hall without a mask on I felt so horrible after.

SMITH: I've also done that. I-- in the very beginning of sophomore year, I quite frequently left Weld without a mask on. Just because I wasn't used to it, cause I-- you don't wear one walking around your house.

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Yeah, it's hard to get used to.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah. And so you gotta run back in and grab one. So it's like, it's not that hard.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. Yeah.

SMITH: Just wear it.

GATES-LUPTON: How did the differences between here and back at your home impact you?

SMITH: I feel like it just made me frustrated, cause I was seeing both ends of it, seeing how adults treat it, in both the positive and negative, and how kids and people my age treat it in the positive and negative. And just, overall in the world hearing, you know, Oh, we're in our twenties we can't get it. And then you see on the news, students go on spring break, and all of a sudden, there's a high increase in twenty-year-olds that died because of Covid. And so it's really-- at the beginning, it was a lot of, you know, Oh, that's sad, but it won't happen to me kind of thing. And it very quickly changed, because it has happened to millions of people. And so seeing those two differences, it was just frustrating and kind of confusing overall, to just feel like, well, where do I stand in between these because it's like, here are the things I do at home, but the rules are kind of different here at school. So where do I bridge that-- that gap?

GATES-LUPTON: So. This one goes back to more like, not the beginning of the pandemic, but-- so when-- when-- the government started to be like, Oh, you all have to wear masks now. How did you feel about everyone having to wear masks?

SMITH: I was a little bit like-- I remember my first thought was, Oh, okay. How am I going to breathe in a mask all day long? And so that was a big thing for me. Because I didn't know it at the time, but I have asthma. Therefore, I can't breathe a lot of the time. You know, I-- it's a bit of a challenge, whether I'm wearing a mask or not. And then another thought was, Oh, I dance how am I going to dance in a mask? You know, these are things that I've never had to do before. I mean, been in the hospital my whole life, and I've never had to wear a mask before. You know, not like-- not like this. And it was just, you know, a lot of learning and then as weird as it sounds, kinda got exciting, because I have a collection of a hundred masks masks to match every outfit I own.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] That's awesome.

SMITH: I don't do that anymore. I don't care. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: But really in the beginning of the pandemic, I had a mask for every 02:20:00outfit, every color of the rainbow. I was like, This one goes with this shirt, this one goes with this shirt, and now I just wanna wear black medical mask. So it's like, I don't care anymore about that aspect. But it was a lot of, Oh, where do I buy these kinds of things? Because up until now, did stores even sell these kinds of things? And it's like, yeah, go in the first aid aisle and find a box of medical masks, but it's like, nobody bought those before the pandemic, not your every day, human, you know? Not your second-grade teacher going to Walmart and buy masks, there's no need for that. So it very much became, you know, where do I get these? Where do I get this? How much am I gonna have to spend? How many do I need? And, thanks to Etsy, I own a lot. The mask business was booming in that first year. And I mean, it-- it just the-- it was challenging to figure out how to go about your-- your day wearing a mask, especially with glasses.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my god.

SMITH: You and I are--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Oh my god.

SMITH: --glasses wearers--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, it's so hard.

SMITH: --your trial and error to find what kind of masks are not only safe and effective, but don't fog up your vision 24/7. So I personally had a lot of trial and error of finding what works and what didn't and finding what was comfortable and what wasn't. Because I got a lot of headaches from my ears being crushed, which never thought would be an issue.

GATES-LUPTON: Same.

SMITH: But I had a lot of-- lot of back-of-the-head and pain from a lot of the straps on masks, so it was things like that. And then, you know, learning how are you gonna do theater in a mask, gotta use your face? It's-- same thing with dance, what are you gonna do? I didn't-- didn't know that they make clear masks. So it was things like that, you know, they're not things that we've ever had to think about before. And it was very much like, this is bizarre. And now when I've-- you've seen like, we get tourists from China or from New York City, and they're wearing masks, and I'm like, I don't get it. How you do that? All day long? And now I'm like, Oh. This isn't so bad. It's fine, just put it on and after a while you kinda forget it's there. So it's not-- it's not the end of the world. You thought it was at the beginning, but it's not anymore. It's not bad.

GATES-LUPTON: And how did you feel about when the vaccines were announced, that people could get vaccine?

SMITH: Oh, I was so excited. I had been saying, since they had been in the very early trial processes, I was saying the minute it becomes available I'm gonna get it. I was a little nervous about side effects. I wasn't-- I wasn't concerned about the actual vaccine. I know a lot of people were concerned about what was in it. But I really, you know, I thought about it for a split second, and I think, Well, I don't know what's in my flu shot vaccine--

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: --but I get it every year. So it's like, you know, parents don't essentially know what's in, you know, your-- your-- I don't know, your--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Tetanus shots.

SMITH: --rabies shots, yeah, your tetanus shot your, you know, your--

GATES-LUPTON: Meningococcal.

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: All those other ones with the long names.

SMITH: Exactly, your-- your MMR vaccines--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, that one.

SMITH: --and everything. You're not gonna-- I mean, your doctor gives you the pamphlet, but you don't read that. I don't know anybody that's ever read that. You know, you just you trust that, you know, it's a federally approved vaccine. I'm not not gonna trust it. And so I wasn't worried about what was in it, and I 02:25:00know that that was a big concern. And then there was the whole, Oh, it's microchipped, and all that. [Unclear] Stupid.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. [Laughs] Yeah.

SMITH: [Unclear] I'm sorry. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, when did they have time--

SMITH: [Overlapping] It's like no--

GATES-LUPTON: --to make microchips to do this?

SMITH: --that's not a thing. Because it's like, Bill Gates was a big fund-- a big founder for it. So was Dolly Parton.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: She putting her music in your arm and body? And it's like, you could say that about anybody. So I was like, That was a stupid comment that people were making that just kinda frustrated me. But I was-- so I wasn't concerned about the actual ingredients in it, but I was really worried about the side effects. Especially because of the side effects that were coming out, about Moderna and Pfizer, I chose to get the Johnson and Johnson, and then literally, the very next day, I felt like I got hit by a bus. Because it's a larger dose, then the two vaccines, so it hit you a little bit harder, but then I was fine by the next day. But then the first week that I had it, the news broke about the blood clots. And I was really nervous, because I'm on medication that puts me at a predisposition for it, and my mother has a history of blood clots, and it can sometimes be genetic. And so I was really, really concerned about it. So I had to do a lot of research, a lot of talking with doctors about it. And, you know, my fears were eased when I was reading a lot more that the people that had, severe underlying conditions and-- and that they typically formed within twenty-four to forty-eight hours after getting the vaccine, and at that point, it'd been a week to a week and a half since I had it. So I was like, Oh, I think I'm fine. And I was fine. [Laughs] And so, after that initial fear, because when I got it, it was-- I got it Easter weekend of 2021. So it was still-- it was within the first month that it was available to-- it was essential workers, and I was able to get it because I have a job here at the college, so they allowed me clearance to get the vaccine. And so I was one of the early people, and I just remember my mom being like, Oh, I don't know if it was smart to get it that early, there's not a lot of knowledge out there. And she didn't get vaccinated until this past November, because there just wasn't-- she didn't feel comfortable with the knowledge that was out at the time. And then the boosters came out. And I was really glad because the life expectancy of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is much shorter Moderna and Pfizer, so I was running pretty low--

GATES-LUPTON

[Overlapping laugh] Yeah.

SMITH: --there, I was about to get the timeframe. And so I went and I got the Pfizer booster. Again, I was just really worried about the side effects. Because I heard that, if you don't get the same booster as your initial shot, it's gonna affect you more. But I really did not want the Johnson and Johnson booster--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: --because I was like, if the initial dose doesn't last that long, why am I gonna get it again?

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: So I got the Pfizer booster and it did affect me for a few days. But overall, I really just had to keep thinking, it's this or a ventilator.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: And that was really my-- my thinking about it. I was like, it's this or death.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Would you rather be sick for twenty-four to forty-eight hours or, you know, lose your life 02:30:00in ninety days. So, you know, I-- I-- pros and cons.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs]

SMITH: But I went with the pros.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, that's a good idea.

SMITH: Yeah, so it was a-- it was definitely a decision that I thought about and did not take lightly. I know a lot of people just jumped the gun and got them. And I think I did jump the gun a little bit with the initial vaccine just because at the time, I was thinking more. Oh, if I get it, I'll never get Covid. That was not the truth. I ended up getting Covid after my booster.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh really?

SMITH: Yes. So, it's like, once they were like, Oh, you can still get Covid, but you won't end up in the hospital, I was like, Okay. I agree. I'll take it. I like that. And I mean, it held true. I got Covid, and it sucked. But I had my booster, and I was sick for three days. And, you know, had symptoms for a month, or a week or two. And then it was fine. And everything was okay. And, you know, the same can't be said for everybody, and I'm grateful that that's how it turned out for me. And I'm grateful that getting the vaccines has allowed me to be with the family members that I missed out on, like my grandparents. We-- I got vaccinated, they got vaccinated, my aunt that lives with them and her two boys got vaccinated, so that we could be together again, and not necessarily be afraid that we were gonna, I mean, ultimately, give each other Covid and die. Especially, my grandparents aren't old, but they are compromised. You know, and that would suck to give your grandparents--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SMITH: --Covid. So that, you know, the vaccines were really a chance for, you know, life to not return to normal, but get a sense of that normalcy back.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh, yeah. What did you think about the controversy over both the mask and the vaccine mandates?

SMITH: I think it was stupid. I just think that everybody should be like-- should want-- then everybody saying, Oh, this should be over right now. It would be over right now, if you got vaccinated and wore your mask.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yep. Yep.

SMITH: Would've been over in months, had you worn your mask consistently, and then got vaccinated. People fail to recognize that the reason it's mutating is because when you get it, and your body changes that DNA of Covid, and then you pass it to somebody else, that's a mutation. So it's like, if you wore your mask and you got vaccinated, there was a lower chance that you were going to get Covid or mutate Covid. So it's like, I'm-- it frustrates me that people say, you know, Oh, it's a violation of our amendments. And, you know, you can't force us to wear it. Well, quite frankly, I think we should force it.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, me too.

SMITH: I think that it should be a legislation thing that you have to wear it and you have to get vaccinated. It's like, I understand, when for-- maybe you're allergic to something in the vaccine, I get that obviously, you can't get the vaccine because then you could potentially die from getting the vaccine. But not getting the vaccine because you think it has a microchip in it? That's stupid. And I-- the religious exemptions I'm iffy on those because sometimes-- sometimes it's legit, sometimes-- whether it's something in the vaccine your religion doesn't believe in, or you know, something among that, I can understand that. But then there's the people that use the religion to say, you know, Oh, I'm not 02:35:00gonna get it because I'm this religion. You know, things like that. And so it's the things like that that bother me. Cause it's like, this could've been over by now.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: This could've been done and over with short of a year, had everybody just pulled up their pants, put on their masks and shut up.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Not to be harsh, but. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, no, it's deserved.

SMITH: Seriously.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: You continue to complain about wanting this to be done and over with, but it could've been, had you, the one that's complaining, just put your mask on and got vaccinated. And, you know, you see a lot of the people that are dying from Covid, and their last words are, I wish I got vaccinated. I wish I wore my mask. I wish I took this seriously. But it's too late, cause you can't do anything. You get to a certain point, and they can't save you. So it's like-- and I wish people would listen to that. Because it's always the people that didn't believe in Covid or thought the masks and the vaccines were stupid that often say that, on their deathbed. And they're like, I shouldn't have been such an idiot. Cause I would be, you know, alive right now. I would be at home, with my family, instead of dying in a hospital bed. So it's like the things like that, that just continue to make me frustrated when I see the news stories about parents that don't want to send their kids to school in a mask. Okay, so your five-year-old that can't get vaccinated is gonna get Covid? What are you gonna do? Because you don't want to wear a mask, so therefore, you're not gonna send your kid to school with a mask, and then your kid could potentially get Covid and die. Think about all the babies that are too young to get vaccinated. I firmly think, not only because I'm immunocompromised, am I taking these steps to protect myself, but I'm really doing it to protect everybody else.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Cause, you can have Covid and not know you have it, you can have no symptoms. So what, you're not gonna go get a test if you have no symptoms.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Right, because you have no reason to think that you have it.

SMITH: Yeah, you have no reason to. So if I, you know, I'm not wearing a mask, because I don't think I have Covid, I'm gonna give it to somebody that'll go home and give it to their kid and their kid can die. So it's like, the things like that, I'm doing it to protect other people and I just wish that we had more human decency to want to protect others. You know, even if it's selfish and you just wanna protect yourself. Okay. You have a mask on? That's fine. I don't care. Protect yourself. But, you know, take that step. Put your mask on. Take the vaccine. You know, whether it's for yourself or for others. Or both. Just do it. It's not that hard. We could be done and over with this. We could not have to wear masks anymore.

GATES-LUPTON: God I wish it would be safe.

SMITH: I know. I know.

GATES-LUPTON: Because yeah, I will continue wearing masks for as long as I have to. But if we could not do it safely, I wouldn't wear them anymore.

SMITH: Exactly. Exactly. If we woke up tomorrow and like, Covid's gone, we'd be like, Okay, great. Throw my masks away.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: I'm not gonna do that just because I don't want to wear it-- [Overlapping] Yeah exactly. --I'm gonna continue to wear it until it's safe to not wear one.

GATES-LUPTON: So during-- I don't remember, I think there were two instances of this. But I know that the government provided stimulus checks. What did you think of that?

SMITH: So I know that there was a few instances where the government sent out stimulus checks. And it was--

GATES-LUPTON: Sorry, [unclear, checking to make sure recorder is still going]. That's okay.

SMITH: [Laughs] I-- I remember when they first came out, I was thinking, Oh, I won't get one because I'm a dependent of my mother. And then I ended up getting one--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] I think I did too.

SMITH: --which was really weird I was not I'm expecting that, cause the news kept 02:40:00saying, Oh, if you're a dependent, you won't get one. But I did, which was nice. Treated myself with that.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs]

SMITH: And then you had the-- the-- I can't remember what they were-- they were called, but the care, the care stimulus checks?

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, the CARES Act?

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: Something like that.

SMITH: That was something along the lines that they did because of Covid as well, to help specifically students. And so that-- that was a big one that I really appreciated it because I, you know, had money that went towards tuition and, you know, things that, you know, or helping me pay for my college education. And I-- I-- I liked that the government had implemented these things. I think-- I personally thought that they should've kept doing that. I know that there's been talks about trying to keep doing them, but then Republicans keep shutting them down. And, you know, that's a whole politics thing. But it's like, who doesn't want free money from the government?

GATES-LUPTON: I know, right?

SMITH: I don't know why you would want to shut that down.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs]

SMITH: Whether you need it or not, it's, you know, fourteen-hundred dollars for free from the government. You could buy a computer with that. Come on, that's a lot of groceries that you can buy with that money. You know, pay some bills. So I-- I-- I thought that that was a really, really good morale booster as well. For a lot of people, not just students here. I know in my family, people were really excited to get the money. Because my mom, her-- she has to work from home. And she's-- while she's considered an essential worker, she had been getting hazard pay, and then the government cut it off. And so she wasn't getting paid what she should've been getting anymore. So that check helped to help pay for that difference that she was no longer getting. So I had no problem with them. I, you know, I will take all the free money that the government wants to give me.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping laugh]

SMITH: And it's like-- I didn't-- I don't read too much about politics, so I don't really understand why people were really upset about it. I know some people were just so upset about it because they didn't want to take money from Joe Biden, but--

GATES-LUPTON: It's money.

SMITH: It's money. I don't care who it's coming from. I will take the money. So I-- yeah, I did not mind it at all. I think they should bring it back. Do it again. Keep it coming.

GATES-LUPTON: So there were a lot of political protests going on, at the beginning especially, of the pandemic. Was it-- was it at the beginning? I'm thinking of the Black Lives Matter one.

SMITH: [Overlapping] It was about June of 2020. So--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Okay, yeah.

SMITH: --within the first four months or five months. [Overlapping] Yeah, I can't even keep track of all of them. [Overlapping] Yeah I would say that was at the beginning.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: It was end of May, early June.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Okay.

SMITH: That's when it started happening.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Did you or anyone around you participate in any of these protests?

SMITH: [Overlapping] I personally did not, because I-- there weren't any that were happening really close to me, and I didn't feel comfortable traveling at the time. Because there were things happening in Syracuse, but Syracuse is a lot bigger than Liverpool.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, it's a city.

SMITH: And with the-- the pandemic-- with the pandemic being really heightened at that point of these protests, I personally, just health wise didn't feel comfortable. But I did a lot of online support, sharing resources, I did some donations, and just learning and being knowledgeable about what was happening. I know that a lot of people were really, you know, affected by it, and I knew people personally that were really affected by it. And you know, as a white person, it's, you know, hard to speak about these things. Because it's like, 02:45:00either you don't know enough, or, you know some, but you don't want to offend, you know, your Black friends if you say something wrong. And I know that was a big thing that I was feeling. I know, for the first couple days of it, I didn't share any information on it. And I had some people reach out to me, and they were like, Hey, you know, why haven't you said anything? And as I was saying, you know, I personally don't have a lot of information on these-- these aspects. And I-- I wanted to do my own research and do some learning, so that I could share some helpful resources instead of, you know, going on Instagram and sharing the first post that I see about it, because that might not be information that's helpful at this time. So I-- I took two or three days, and, you know, I didn't really talk to anybody about it, and I just did my own research. And I did speak to a few of my friends who-- who are Black within the, you know, after the first initial couple of days, and I said, Hey, you know, what can I do to support you in this time? Because, yeah, I mean, watching that news footage as a white person is upsetting, but I can't imagine what that feels like, as a Black American, to watch a police officer slowly killing a Black man-- a white police officer, slowly killing a black man with his knee. I can't imagine what that's like. You know, how-- how do you, you know, connect then, on that level? Cause obviously, any decent human being would see that and be disturbed by it. But, you know, having that-- I didn't have that, I guess, racial connection to it. You know, there was also historical context, you know, along with it. So, you know, I-- I really was affected by it, and didn't know how to react and I didn't want to say the wrong thing. And then, you know, have somebody have a friend message me and be like, Hey, this isn't, you know, something that should be shared, or, you know, this isn't helpful right now. So I felt like it was kind of a double-edged sword, because if you don't say something you're, you know, you're a white person that's not denouncing it. But if you say something, and it's wrong, then you're, you know, spreading misinformation about an important thing that's happening in history. So, you know, it was confusing, and there was a lot of, you know, things I was seeing on Facebook, and Instagram, and Twitter, and a lot of hate happening, a lot of racism. And it was-- it's sad to see that. As you know, somebody who, you know, loves to be around people and seeing, you know, I've witnessed a lot of Black students that I know kind of distance themselves from white students, because they didn't feel comfortable speaking about these kinds of things, and I feel like that, you know, was just more of a disconnect. And I mean, we came back to Wells, and there was a lot of Black Lives Matter programs that we did, and there was a lot of talks about it, and we did the mural on the-- the walkway, which has now sadly been washed away by the rain. It needs to be repainted.

GATES-LUPTON: I really hope they do that.

SMITH: I hope they do that as well. And so, you know, I-- I think as a community of students specifically, I was able to come together and support my peers that way, but you know, at home, it was hard just because, you know, being in the 02:50:00middle of a pandemic you couldn't go see anybody. And I mean, a lot of Covid cases were coming out of these rallies and these protests, because, you know, people were wearing masks, but you're so closely packed together that it doesn't really matter. So it was just a-- a challenging time. And, you know-- I don't wanna challenging because, well, it's hard to talk about these things. Because, you know, obviously, as a white person, it's not about me. And I feel like words can be twisted really easily. And I've seen it happen. And so, yes, it was challenging just to navigate as a white person, I would say, because I don't have those experiences, and I will never have those experiences, and I can't relate to, you know, police brutality. You know, if I were to get pulled over, they'd probably let me go. Whereas if a Black person got pulled over, chances are they got pulled over for no reason, and then they get a ticket, for no reason. So it's like, things like that, where it's like, I'm fortunate that I will never have those-- those issues, but it makes me sad that, you know, we can't just be treated the same, that just because of the color of our skin, you know, that dictates how people get the treat us. You know, that-- that's not fair. I mean, underneath skin, we're all bones. We're the same underneath, so it's like-- it doesn't-- you know, that shouldn't matter. So it just, those-- that time was-- was challenging and there was a lot of things going on in the world that just were not-- not productive for anybody and not-- not-- especially for young children to witness these things, and I've-- I've-- you know, people-- there've been a lot of good things to come out of it, a lot of, you know, new coalitions and new activism groups and a lot of children taking activism and, you know, standing up for what's right. But it shouldn't have to take, you know, an innocent Black man dying to inspire that. So, you know, it's-- it's hard to personally talk about those kinds of things, just because I almost feel like I don't have a right to comment on them.

GATES-LUPTON: I get that.

SMITH: Not that people can't talk about it, but it's like, I-- I don't have anything-- I don't have any relation to it. So, you know, I can't really make a comment on it. I can't make a comment on parenthood because I don't have a child. It's the same thing. It's like I can't really, you know, say what I would do or what, you know, that kind of situation would be because I-- I don't know and I never will. So it's-- it's hard, but I, you know, I-- I take-- I really try to learn and listen, and open myself up to learning about these-- these things, and doing research, and knowing what is productive and what's not productive in these-- these kind of situations.

GATES-LUPTON: I think that was all really well put, cause--

SMITH: [Interrupting] I hope so.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh yeah, no--

SMITH: [Overlapping] I was really trying.

GATES-LUPTON: That-- that was extremely well put, because that's something I've struggled with too. Because-- Recording, I'm also white.

SMITH: [Laughs] Yes.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs] I am very pale. But anyway--

SMITH: [Overlapping] Very white. [Interrupting, laughs] Me as well.

GATES-LUPTON: Cause it's not my experience, but I want to be able to help and support, but I'm scared of-- [Interrupting] Exactly. --making it worse.

SMITH: And we're not the minority--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Exactly, yeah.

SMITH: --in this-- in this instance. It's like--

GATES-LUPTON: It's not our-- it's not our thing, but we want to be able to support the people who it is-- it is their thing.

SMITH: [Overlapping] Exactly, exactly. And that's your identity, and there's nothing wrong with that, and you shouldn't feel shame in that being your identity. Just like as a white person, you shouldn't be ashamed that you're white. I feel like there's been a lot of-- unless you're a bad white person.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh yeah. If you're a bad white person, you should be ashamed. [Laughs]

SMITH: [Overlapping] Unless you're antisemitic or a Hitler stan--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

SMITH: [Overlapping] No. That's not cool. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: No. That's very not cool.

SMITH: But you, you know, you-- you shouldn't feel like you can't comment on it because you're white, because I-- I feel like, you know, while we can't relate, we do have things that, you know, we can say and can be supportive. And, you know, we again, not about us.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: It's not about us. But, you know, you shouldn't be afraid to say anything, and support your-- your Black peers in fear of them saying, Oh, you're white. You can't comment on it. Because it's like, I haven't experienced that. For many of my black peers, I don't know if that's something that's happened, but everything I've shared with my peers has been, you know, a lot of warming and growing and having hard conversations that, you know, you might not wanna have--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. It's hard stuff.

SMITH: --but you should. You should. So I think everybody should be forced to have those kinda conversation. Just in my opinion.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Okay, now this one is taking a bit of a pivot. [Laughs] Another pivot.

SMITH: [Unclear]

GATES-LUPTON: What?

SMITH: [Sing-song] Piv-ot.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs]

SMITH: Friends. Sorry. It was a bizarre comment to make, and now it's on record.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] It's okay.

SMITH: It's okay.

GATES-LUPTON: So-- [unclear speech, recorder moving around] Okay. Good, it's still going. Oh my god, we're almost at three hours.

SMITH: Jesus. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] I may have to edit this down. I'll have to talk to my professor and we'll see. Hopefully I can cut that bit out where I'm saying that. [Laughs] Probably. Anyway.

SMITH: [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, I actually should keep it on the screen to make sure it keeps recording past three hours.

SMITH: Hold on.

GATES-LUPTON: Wow. [Laughs] Okay, so now this is going into elements of grief around Covid. So yeah, just remember, anything you don't want to answer, you definitely don't have to answer.

SMITH: Yeah.

GATES-LUPTON: So did illness impact you and your family?

SMITH: Yes. Personally, I know I did get Covid. My brother, we don't know where he caught it from, but he caught Covid, and he was not vaccinated, and he got-- he got really lucky, but he also got really sick for a couple days. And so, you know, luckily he didn't have to go to a hospital or anything and were able to take care of it at home. But my mom and I-- he actually-- he came home, with Covid, and we didn't know and then he was already sick on New Year's Eve, and my mom and I started to get symptoms on New Year's Eve. And he tested positive on January 1st, we tested positive on January 3rd. So it was a really rapid succession. I woke up on January 1st or 2nd and physically couldn't get out of bed. I was very ill. And I was worried because I-- I was born premature, so I've always been really susceptible to getting really sick really easily. Typically, when somebody gets a cold they have it for maybe a week or two, at the most. When I get them, I have them for over a month, because my body is just working extra hard to fight 'em off. And so I had always been worried about getting sick. And 03:00:00even after being vaccinated, I was worried about it. And then I found out that I have asthma in November and then got sick in end of December, January. And so I was really concerned, but luckily, I didn't have too much trouble breathing or anything. And my mom did get a little bit sicker than I did, because she didn't have a booster. But we all recovered fairly quickly, which I'm grateful for, and that, you know, we haven't experienced any of that long Covid they've been telling you about.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] That's really good. Yeah.

SMITH: Which I know, I was really concerned about. Just because I-- I, you know, they don't know who it's gonna affect and who it's not gonna affect. So I was-- I was worried about that. And-- but fortunately, we-- we did not experience any of that. We had to quarantine at home, and I finished my quarantine about, almost a week before I had to come back here.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, dang.

SMITH: Which, this was actually the second year in a row that I've had to quarantine over J-Term.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh wow.

SMITH: Because my other brother got Covid last J-Term. Last January. And so-- and that was back when it was the fourteen days and not the ten days. And so that was, you know, rough, and then having to do it all over again, at almost exactly the same time, was kind of weird--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: Now that I'm thinking about it. Now that I'm thinking about it, that's a little funny. It's like a matrix thing right there. [Laughs] So it's like, we got really lucky that, you know, we were all safe and, you know, recovered fairly easily. Had some lingering symptoms for about a week. But you know, we were pretty much fine within four to five days. Pretty much back to normal. And, I mean, I-- I haven't-- not to my knowledge, I haven't had any family members that I was personally close with pass from Covid. I've-- have had some family members pass during the pandemic, but not because of Covid, which is also challenging, because it's like, yeah, you're grieving because it's a pandemic, but people are still dying not because of Covid, which, you know, I feel like some people kind of forgotten that people are dying from everyday things. So that's been a little weird, cause it's like, I say, Oh, I have to go to a funeral, and they're like, Oh, I'm so sorry, was it Covid? And I'm like, No.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: [Laughs] And then they're always kinda surprised. So it's like, that has been a weird piece of it, but I-- I've been fortunate enough to not have had any personal loss from Covid. Knock on wood. I don't need that karma in my life.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] Yeah.

SMITH: So yeah, that-- I've been-- I've been grateful for that. Because I know a lot of people can't say the same thing.

GATES-LUPTON: And how did getting Covid, and having your family have Covid, how did that affect your outlook on the pandemic?

SMITH: I mean, I've always been really-- I was really grateful because I didn't have Covid for a long time, and I was, you know, as a susceptible person, I was like, I would get up every day and be like, Another day with no Covid. Thank god. Actually being relieved that I'm one of the lucky ones. Especially, you know, with my brother last January getting Covid, I was really worried that I 03:05:00would get it, but he had gone and stayed away during his contagion period, so by the time he tested positive, he technically wasn't contagious anymore. So I got lucky in that aspect. But I-- once I got it for real, it was a little rough at the beginning because I really was trying to go this whole pandemic with not getting Covid, you know, not only to be like, you know, prove that not everybody was gonna get Covid, but with the Omicron, it was kind of impossible to not get Covid, cause it-- you had it before you even knew you had it. So that was a little-- a little rough. But I-- I was really grateful for the modern medicine and having that vaccine, and surviving and not having real hospitals, especially with asthma. A lot of people that have asthma have had to be intubated because of Covid, because they can't breathe. And I did have some, you know, a few mild chest issues, but I'd also been sick a little bit more than a month before I caught Covid anyway, so it was like, I had just gotten over one thing only to catch another.

GATES-LUPTON: It's not great for your body.

SMITH: No, it was not great for my body. Not great for my mental health.

GATES-LUPTON: No.

SMITH: But I really, you know, once I recovered, and I, you know, was able to say I made it through it, I was just really grateful to have made it through it when, you know, especially my mom and I could've been the ones that ended up in the hospital. So, you know, I-- it really just made me grateful even more for, you know, every day getting up and, you know, not being shacked to a ventilator, not being in the hospital, and being able to be home with my family and recover, and not, you know, have any worry about, I'm gonna die. Cause I knew I wasn't. So thank god for Pfizer.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, my god, yes. Yeah, I mean, for the record, I'm really glad you recovered too.

SMITH: Thank you, I appreciate it.

BOTH: [Laugh]

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Even if we weren't already friends, I would be glad you recovered, but I'm--

SMITH: [Overlapping] That was a rough--

GATES-LUPTON: --I'm especially glad. [Laughs]

SMITH: --that was a rough couple months.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: From November-- November to mid-January, that was rough. Especially after I came back after my health leave in November for those two weeks. But it's okay. It's fine.

GATES-LUPTON: You made it.

SMITH: I made it. I'm okay. -Ish.

GATES-LUPTON: So looking back on those experiences, what do you take away from them? Mood.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: I'm fine. From having Covid and being sick during the pandemic?

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, especially going forward throughout the rest of the pandemic, but even after that.

SMITH: Gotcha. I mean, again, I'm just grateful to have been one of the ones that caught it and was lucky enough to recover at home and be safe and not have any long Covid or, you know, any of the really severe symptoms of Covid. And I got Covid and I didn't even have a fever.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my god. Wow.

SMITH: That's why I didn't think I had Covid for the first couple of days until I tested positive.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I can see why.

SMITH: Because some of my symptoms were not normal Omicron symptoms. So it-- it was-- it was challenging because things are so ever-changing with the pandemic. You know, it is hard, speaking as somebody who didn't have Covid for a long time and then did have Covid, it's hard to tell when it's Covid and when it's not. Because when I was sick in November, I thought I had Covid, because I had a 03:10:00fever. I had chills. I was sick to my stomach. I had all the symptoms of classic Covid, and yet I didn't have Covid. I tested negative six times over a span of three weeks, from the day I had symptoms, till I was way past the positive testing timeframe, I continued to test negative. And so, you know, it just shows that you can-- you can't be too safe in a pandemic. I willingly went into quarantine. Awful. Never again. [Laughs] I willingly quarantined here, because I didn't want to risk getting anybody at home sick. I, you know, was being preemptive and going to the doctor, and getting tested, even when I came home after my two initial tests I had here, I had one on campus and one that got sent to the county. And so it was like, I got to experience being really sick with what I thought was Covid, and then being really sick with what was Covid. And really between the two, the one that wasn't Covid was worse than the one that was.

GATES-LUPTON: That's so interesting.

SMITH: And I think that that has a lot to do with the vaccine. I definitely think that the actual Covid could have been a lot like what wasn't Covid for me had I not been vaccinated and boosted. Because I-- I-- thought I was gonna die when I didn't have Covid. And then I actually had Covid, and yeah, the first real day of symptoms really sucked, but I was like, I'm alive at least. I was like, I know this is awful, and I'm don't feel good, and I'm really uncomfortable. But it's not as bad as what it was a month ago. So it's like, you know, it's funny how that is and how I've always been kind of a-- a sickly person, as weird as that sounds to say. But I just-- I catch things really easily, and I get really, really sick easily, and so I'm used to that, but never so consecutively. And that really put into perspective how lucky I am to have my health and have the resources I have, and the doctors I have. Because had I not been sick in November, I wouldn't know I have asthma. And so knowing that has caused me to protect myself even more now than before, which-- I protected myself a lot before, but I-- knowing that I am immunocompromised, you know, officially, cause I've always said I was just because of my previous medical conditions. But having that, it's a legit immunodisease. So, it's like, knowing that very well, you know, I could have gotten Covid and died because I have asthma, and I didn't. I'm lucky. Because there are some people that even with the vaccine, they have asthma and they got Covid and died. And so, you know, it-- it's-- I'm grateful that-- I'm lucky I'm grateful that my family is healthy. And that we, you know, while it's hard, we've made it through this, you know, relatively okay. Would I have loved to have made it this whole pandemic and not had Covid? Absolutely. But I'm also-- I'm kinda grateful that I have had it, because now-- now I have that experience. And I have-- now I know what it 03:15:00feels like. I'm a hypochondriac, so--

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs] [Overlapping] Same.

SMITH: --a lot of times throughout this last year and a half-ish, I thought I've had Covid because I've been thinking about it and then I freak myself out. [Laughs] So I have gotten probably over a hundred Covid tests within this last year, between Wells and outside testing, just because every couple of weeks, I feel like I have Covid. I never did. So it's like--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Until the time you thought you didn't have it, you did.

BOTH: [Laugh]

SMITH: [Overlapping] Until-- until the time I thought I did have it, and I actually didn't--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: --and then I got it.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: [Laughs] So it's like, I'm glad I know-- I'm glad I did have it, because now I know what it actually feels like. It does not feel like anything else.

GATES-LUPTON: Dang.

SMITH: The aches and pains that you get with Covid, do not feel like normal body aches that you get with a flu. There's a-- a big difference, and there's a lot of side effects that don't get talked about, that I experienced and experienced for about a week after I was okay. Insomnia. Ain't nobody talk about that. I also had nightmares when I could sleep.

GATES-LUPTON: Interesting.

SMITH: And I don't-- I don't normally have nightmares, but it was only when I could sleep I had terrifying nightmares. And I haven't had them since. It was only during that week and a half that I had Covid. [Laughs] And then the lingering aftereffects, and, you know, just random pains in your body. And between my mom and I, there were a lot of things that we had that weren't talked about. And it's like, whether that was just the way our bodies reacted to it, or there's not enough data on it for the CDC to say anything. It's like, it-- it-- it really depends, but-- and everybody reacts to it differently. But I'm just-- I'm-- I'm grateful that I survived and my family survived, and that everybody I hold close has survived, because I have-- my two best friends from home have also caught Covid

GATES-LUPTON: Oh, wow.

SMITH: And they both had their own really tough experiences with it. And you know, I'm grateful that we all have our health, and they're also immunocompromised--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh, yeah.

SMITH: --so I was really worried about them as well. So, you know, I'm-- I'm grateful that the people I love have made it through and are still here, to tell the story of it, I guess. Because that can't be said about a lot of people.

GATES-LUPTON: We are getting to the end.

SMITH: Okay.

GATES-LUPTON: It's been a very-- we've been here a very long time. [Laughs]

SMITH: [Laughs] It's been a long interview. But it's okay, I like to talk.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I mean, the things you've been saying have been amazing.

SMITH: I ramble a bit, so--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] This is good quality content.

SMITH: Good.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yes. It's very good.

SMITH: My answers can be a little bit long winded. But I always get to the point eventually.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I would much rather long winded answers that actually have substance, which yours do--

SMITH: [Overlapping] Good. [Laughs]

GATES-LUPTON: --than short, two-word answers.

SMITH: Good. Okay, I'm doing something good.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, no, you-- what you're saying has substance.

SMITH: Great. That's what I'm going for.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah. You did a good job.

SMITH: Thank you.

GATES-LUPTON: You're welcome. So now that things are loosening up, and places are reopening and mask mandates have kind of stopped being so much of a thing-- some-- some people are saying things are going back to normal. I know we talked about that earlier, neither of us think that they are.

SMITH: No. Definitely not.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. But how-- how do you think it's going with things opening up again?

SMITH: I am quite frankly, terrified. I really think that we are just gonna end up back where we were in 2020. I know that, personally, I know people that are like, Oh, I'm vaccinated, I wear a mask, I'm fine. No. You're not fine. I was 03:20:00vaccinated. I wear a mask every day. I still got Covid. And I know ton of other people that the same thing has happened to them. So it's like, you know, you can't just get a vaccine and wear a mask for a year or two and then say, Oh, it's over. It's not over. Cases, specifically in Cayuga County right now on what's date, April 10th?

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: Are significantly higher than they have been in a while. Testing rates all around, not only here at Wells, but in the county in the state in the country, are way lower than they have been at this point in the previous years. And, you know, that really just shows-- I-- I understand that people are tired of it, and they want to just move on with normal life. I get it, I do too. Would I love to just run around and frolic with no mask--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping laugh]

SMITH: --and go to concerts and see people and go to the store? Absolutely. I would love nothing more. But I know that that's not possible without the work to get there. And I just feel like people-- you know, mental health is lowering back to where it was in 2020. And people are just, you know, fed up with it and done and don't want to do it anymore. And I understand. I get it. Cause I-- I feel it too. But I-- as somebody who's had Covid and experienced it, I wouldn't wish-- I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. As somebody who was vaccinated with Covid that had the lesser of what could have been, it was the worst week of my life. The worst. I-- I can't imagine what that's like to have it and not be vaccinated. And I-- I-- I just wish that people would continue to take it seriously, and continue to wear their masks. And I-- I-- I really don't agree with it not being a mandate anymore. I understand that people were starting to not follow it, I get it. But that doesn't mean that we should take it away. I know it's-- it's recommended that you should wear it, I understand that, but to a lot of people that don't mean nothing. They see, Oh, mask mandate lifted, throw them all away, Imma go out and spread my germs. No. That just we're just gonna end up right back where we were. That's where we're headed, right now, when I look at the numbers, it looks eerily similar to what it looked like in 2020. And, you know, I've-- I feel like, up until now, we've been on a good-- a good decrease in cases, numbers were really low for a really long period of time, deaths were down, testing was up, really high vaccine rates were really high. And all of that is changing again, for the worse. People aren't getting tested, people are dying again. You know, infection rates are up, in every county. I think we're actually in this-- Cayuga County's in high alert. We're--

GATES-LUPTON: [Interrupting] Oh my god, really?

SMITH: Yeah, we're at-- at the highest it can be right now. Which is not good. Nobody is really talking about it. And that's what makes me upset. Because it's like, I know it's happening. And I, you know, I walk out of this-- I walk out of my room, and nobody's wearing a mask in this building.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah, I know. I hate it so much.

SMITH: And people show up to class with no masks, or, you know, you'll be in class talking to people, and they'll take off their masks to talk to you. You go to the dining hall to eat, and they'll take off their mask. The people that are serving you, take off their mask. So it's like, people-- I understand that people want things to go back to quote unquote, normal. But that can't happen. We can't go back, we can only go forward. And yeah, it's just-- it's 03:25:00frustrating, and I just feel like sometimes screaming into a void about it, because nobody really cares anymore. And, you know, there's-- I know, there's a lot of things happening in the world right now that are a little bit more important, but that doesn't-- that doesn't invalidate what's happening right now, and that doesn't invalidate the work that needs to be done right now.

GATES-LUPTON: Definitely. Yeah. And you actually led into this next one perfectly. [To the recorder] Is this still going? [To Smith] In-- in moving forward, what lessons or knowledge have you gained over the past three years-- well, three-ish years, two years-- of the pandemic that you're gonna take with you, going forward?

SMITH: Oh. Great. I mean, I've kinda touched on it a little bit throughout this whole interview. But you know, along the whole, how to do online school in Covid, I feel like I learned a lot of useful skills on how to take care of my own, you know, work and get things done. And on the flip side, also teach in a pandemic, as a-- as I'm currently a TA. And, you know, if I do end up going on to teach theater or dance, then I feel like that's a good aspect, because, you know, depending on how long this lasts, by the time I graduate and get a job, maybe we'll still be teaching online.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: I pray and hope to god not--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] I know.

SMITH: --but for the record, I am crossing my fingers right now.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Laughs]

SMITH: [Laughs] I pray to God that we are not. And I hope we aren't, but if we are, I have those skills to be able to do that. And I-- I also, you know, I've learned a lot of personal safety skills throughout this. Definitely full-on believe that we should wear masks when we're sick. When you have a cold, please wear a mask. Please don't go to class, sneezing and coughing all over your friends. You should not go to class when you're sick anyway, but if you must, wear a masks. I think that that would be a great thing to implement in daily life, when this pandemic does end, because I do believe it will end. I do say-- I don't say if it ends, I say when it ends. When that time comes, I do hope that the things that we've done in terms of personal safety stick around, you know, wearing masks when we're sick. I've always been a big person on sanitizer, I have one right by my door, I use it every time I come and go. So, you know, sanitizing, hand washing, just being aware of your own physical health. And, you know, testing when you're sick, and getting vaccines. I think that's really important anyway, especially now more than ever. But most important, I really think that this pandemic has taught me a lot about mental health. And, you know, it's been challenging on everybody, and being isolated, and, you know, a lot of people their depression got really bad during the pandemic, me included, and being able to find the resources that help you and that are beneficial to you, you know, that-- that online therapy? Big fan. Big fan.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yes same. Same.

SMITH: Love online therapy. I definitely think it should be free all around the board. Just putting that out there.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Oh my god, yes. Yeah.

SMITH: What was that app, Better Help?

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, I think so.

SMITH: Gotta pay sixty dollars a month for that.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh my god.

SMITH: Should be free. Just putting that out there. [Laughs] A little off-topic. [Laughs] It's like, things like that, online health resources. I think that those were really beneficial. Even when we're not in a pandemic, some people 03:30:00don't feel comfortable going to speak to a therapist in person. So having that, you know, resource online, I feel is very helpful. And I did a lot of soul searching, and, you know-- I say meditating, but not like the sitting cross-legged kind of meditating, more like internal thinking meditating. And just becoming comfortable with the choices I've made in the last few years, and being able to not second guess the things that you choose to do. Because it's-- it's hard to make decisions right now, in this pandemic. And so, you know, if you have to make a choice and say, Hey, I need to do this for myself, then you need to do that for yourself. If you need to remove yourself from a situation because it's too much, it's too much, and that's okay, and that was not something that I was comfortable doing before the pandemic. And so I feel like that-- this has really taught me, you know, that it's okay, to not be okay. [Laughs] As corny as saying is, as well--

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. [Interrupting] It's also super important.

SMITH: It's very important. I know a lot of people say that, but it's very important to know that it's okay to not be okay. And it's okay to let people know that you're not okay, and Covid depression, and pandemic depression, is a big thing. And I know, a lot of people are dealing with it. And they're not saying that they are.

GATES-LUPTON: Which makes it harder.

SMITH: It makes it so much harder, because there are people that are dealing with it, and that need other people to be able to talk about it with, and they just don't have those, because not everybody wants to talk about it. And that's okay, too. You don't have to talk about it. But just know that, you know, there are people that you can talk to about it. And that, you know, it's okay to need to talk about it. So yeah, it-- I did a lot of coming to terms with-- with things mental health-wise, during this-- this pandemic Really had the time to think about it--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Yeah.

SMITH: --so it kind of forced me to.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah.

SMITH: But yeah, that was probably my-- my biggest takeaway of-- of things, was just, being comfortable with the choices I make and knowing that even if it's not the choice that you thought you were gonna make, it's the choice that you need to make in the moment. And if you need to make another choice down the road, that's okay, too. And it's okay to-- it's also okay to not know what you need to do, or what you want to do. And there's nothing wrong with that, either.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's all super important, and I'm really glad that you were able to think about all of that and figure that out.

SMITH: [Laughs] I had a lot of time. Lot of time to think about it.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah sounds like it.

SMITH: Yeah. Lotta time.

GATES-LUPTON: Alright. So we're just about done with the interview, but are there any topics that you thought we would cover, or wanted to cover that we haven't covered?

SMITH: No, I got to talk about--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping laugh]

SMITH: --all the things I needed to talk about about this.

GATES-LUPTON: Good.

SMITH: Like a little mini therapy session.

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlappping laugh]

SMITH: I loved it.

GATES-LUPTON: You're very welcome.

SMITH: Thank you.

GATES-LUPTON: Therapist Caroline coming to you live--

SMITH: [Overlapping] There you go.

GATES-LUPTON: --from Wells.

SMITH: There you go. Thank you. I needed it.

GATES-LUPTON: For the record, I'm not a therapist. I'm an English major. Just for the record. [Laughs] My parents are therapists, but that doesn't mean anything.

SMITH: For the record I'm laughing. That was the funniest thing I've ever heard Caroline ever say in my life.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs harder] You're very welcome.

SMITH: Wow. This is a mess. Your teacher's gonna be like, What is this?

BOTH: [Laugh]

GATES-LUPTON: And there's one last question. Are there any topics that we talked about that you wanna revisit?

SMITH: Okay. No, I feel very satisfied--

GATES-LUPTON: [Overlapping] Good!

SMITH: --with all I had to say about all these topics.

GATES-LUPTON: Good, I'm really glad.

SMITH: Yeah. I enjoyed all these questions.

GATES-LUPTON: Good.

SMITH: Felt like it covered a very broad spectrum, but also pinpointed little things here or there.

GATES-LUPTON: Good, I'm happy to hear that.

SMITH: Yeah. Good job.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah. Thank you, I didn't write them, but--

SMITH: [Overlapping] I know.

GATES-LUPTON: [Laughs] I helped write them

SMITH: You did a good job, asking them.

GATES-LUPTON: Oh thank you. [Laughs] Yeah, thank you so much for being my interviewee and sharing your experiences.

SMITH: Thank you.

GATES-LUPTON: And giving such really, really good answers.

SMITH: Thank you for interviewing me.

GATES-LUPTON: Yeah, you're welcome.

SMITH: I had a good time.

GATES-LUPTON: Good, I'm really glad. [Laughs] Let's see how long this is.

SMITH: Like four hour.

GATES-LUPTON: I think it's gonna be three and a half. It's three-- three hours and thirty-five minutes. [Laughs]

SMITH: Yep, three hours and thirty-five minutes.

GATES-LUPTON: Alright, and stopping.

TRANSCRIPT: Caroline Gates-Lupton 05-06-2022